Grab

[fire olli]

After reading this skill it seems to me you can only place the player where you like if you push him, if you knock him down you have to use the normal 3 squares. Am i right?????????

[Leilond]

After reading this skill it seems to me you can only place the player where you like if you push him, if you knock him down you have to use the normal 3 squares. Am i right?????????

No, you're wrong
When you obtain the "Defender down" with the dice, the rules say
"The defending player is pushed back and then Knocked Down in the square they are moved to. The attacking player may follow up the defender."

Thus, you actually first push back him (grab) and THEN he's knocked down in that square

Same applies to Defender Stumbles

[Daefaroth]

Fully agree.

Grab (Strength)
A player with this skill uses his great strength and prowess to grab his opponent and throw him around. To represent this, only while making a Block Action, if his block results in a push back he may choose any empty square adjacent to his opponent to push back his opponent. When making a Block or Blitz Action, Grab and Side Step will cancel each other out and the standard pushback rules apply. Grab will not work if there are no empty adjacent squares. A player with the Grab skill can never learn or gain the Frenzy skill through any means. Likewise, a player with the Frenzy skill can never learn or gain the Grab skill through any means.

Works any time the defender is pushed back while making a block. So it would work on Defender Down, Defender Stumbles (whether or not dodge is used), Pushed, and even Both Down when converted to a Pushed through Juggernaut.

[tenwit]

and even Both Down when converted to a Pushed through Juggernaut.

Actually not this one. Juggernaut converts Both Down to Push only on a blitz. Grab doesn't allow choice of squares on a blitz.

[Daefaroth]

and even Both Down when converted to a Pushed through Juggernaut.

Actually not this one. Juggernaut converts Both Down to Push only on a blitz. Grab doesn't allow choice of squares on a blitz.

That's funny, it does say only Block Actions at the beginning, but then it mentions Blitz actions later...weird. I suppose you can use the sidestep cancellation effect on the Blitz, but the primary effect can only be used on a Block.

[tenwit]

That's exactly right. Grab always cancels Side Step. It controls where the target moves only during a Block Action.

[Leilond]

and even Both Down when converted to a Pushed through Juggernaut.

Actually not this one. Juggernaut converts Both Down to Push only on a blitz. Grab doesn't allow choice of squares on a blitz.

That's funny, it does say only Block Actions at the beginning, but then it mentions Blitz actions later...weird. I suppose you can use the sidestep cancellation effect on the Blitz, but the primary effect can only be used on a Block.

Because you can choose the target destination only during a block action, but it cancels the side step skill during a blitz action too

[Master Wang]

Sorry for the necromancy, but I can't find the answer I'm after even though I know I've seen it somewhere: can you use grab to throw people into the crowd, i.e. does the crowd count as an empty square? I'm going to be taking it on one of my side stepping orc blitzers when they skill up, I want to know if it's going to be super-bad or superduper-bad

[Ullis]

From page 9:

...The player must be pushed back into an empty square if
possible... Players must be pushed off the pitch if there are no eligible
empty squares on the pitch.

The crowd is obviously not a square and not on the pitch, so no, you cannot use Grab to throw people in the crowd. I guess this means your Orc will only be super-bad.

Actually now that I looked at the wordings, it looks like you cannot use Grab if the player that is pushed back is completely surrounded by players and/or the sidelines. In this case you would have to make a normal push back. Oh right, it even says so in the Grab skill...

[noserenda]

Yes you can line them up for a crowd surfing but not hoof them straight in.

[Master Wang]

Only super-bad it is then

[dodolulu]

ive read some irritations about the order of declaring the use of grab and side step with the result that if you have grab and your opponent has side step in this situation:

C|
C|SG (C)rowd, (S)idestepper, (G)rabber
C|

grab and side step just cancel each other out and no one is forced to declare whether he uses his skill or not.

coming to juggernaut, i would like to know if its the same here.
imagine a player with block and juggernaut blitzing someone with wrestle.

do juggernaut and wrestle cancel each other out regardless of using juggernaut or not?
so is it possible to say you dont want to use juggernaut knowing his wrestle is canceled out either way and apply a both down result, knocking the wrestle-guy down?

i would guess no, but im not sure.

edit: forgot the "may choose" in the text, so it should be clear, sory for the necromancy

[DoubleSkulls]

Grab and Sidestep just cancel each other out. In your example the sidestepper is always crowd surfed if pushed UNLESS for some reason the blitzing player elects to let them sidestep. There isn't much to get confused about IMO. You don't have a stupid I'll use grab, well I'll not use SS then cycle. That's just daft.

The converting both downs into pushes is separate from the anti-wrestle feature of Juggernaut. So its perfectly legal for a Block/Juggernaut player to knock down a Wrestle player by choosing both down on a blitz.

[tenwit]

Or to rephrase: Juggernaut and Wrestle do not cancel each other out. Juggernaut cancels out Wrestle; Wrestle has no effect on Juggernaut.