Turnover vs. TRR?

[mattgslater]

Under what circumstances (if any) will you suffer a turnover rather than burn a TRR, when you have a TRR available?

I doubt that many would refuse to spend a TRR on an early turnover: usually it'd be your last or second-last action. It's also unlikely you'd refuse a TRR late in the half unless it's your last and you know you have a tough roll or series ahead.

But what about end-of-turn troubles, like bobbled pickups, failed passes and dropped open-field catches? Some people do, some people don't. Some people might go either way, depending on circumstances. How about you?

How does your number of remaining RRs affect you? If you're down to one, do you try to save it? Do you start with bigger risks and flashier plays if you have more than you think you need?

How does knockdown play in? Presumably, you're more likely to re-roll a failed dodge than a failed catch, but would you ever refuse a TRR on a dodge? Likewise SPPs. Are you more likely to re-roll a pickup if you're about to make a skilly elf-pass than if you're just going to tuck it under?

What about the odds? Again, you're probably more likely to re-roll an 8/9 block than a 5/6 dodge or GFI, but how much more likely? Obviously, if you're dodging or GFIing for the score, you'll burn what you need and the point is moot. The point is moot if your answer to the above question is "never" as well. But what about long odds? If the pass goes funny but scatters to one of your guys and you can catch inaccurate at 4+, are you less likely to re-roll a 2 than you would be if it hit your intended target to catch at 3+? What if it was 5+?

[DoubleSkulls]

Its tactical, not personal. How much does the failed action hurt my tactical position. Pick ups are a good example, a failed pick up deep in my half, well away from trouble usually I won't reroll. However if there is potential trouble then I may well do so.

[besters]

I agree with Ian, its about the tactical situation, although different people can have views on that.

I usually use re-rolls too quickly, perhaps on unimportant one die blocks or dodges that marginally improve the situation. So lately I have focused on either not making these moves, or taking the pain to conserve TRR's when they fail.

Reason, I have been picking teams with higher player content and less TRR's and for me it seems to be an improvement.

Anyway, how many times do you roll the same result, I seem to do it far more than statistic's say I should.

With this and the no TRR thread, is there a particular point you are looking at?

Besters

[mattgslater]

With this and the no TRR thread, is there a particular point you are looking at?

I just think it's one of many things to keep in mind, and I wanted to see how others interacted with TRR scarcity. Just trying to improve the game by making salient an individual aspect.

[Jural]

Typically, when I play a team like Lizardmen who start with very few skills, I will look at critical activities (typically blocks, picking up the ball, and passing or handing off the ball) and ask myself at the beginning of the turn which NEED to be completed this turn.

Then I will almost always go in the following order:

1) roll free movement
2) 2D or 3D blocks with Block

Assuming I haven't doubleskulled on 2) (which I will typically use a re-roll for if there are critical actions remaining in the turn,) I move on to the critical actions. With elf teams I might risk 1 or 2 Ag 4 Dodges with Dodge if it would make a huge difference.

Finally, I perform the remaining actions (other blocks without block, or AG 3 dodges with Dodge backer, and so on down the chain.)

Sometimes I am in great position to start the turn, so 2 die blocks and movement are always necessary, but that is pretty unusual.

The key thing is "critical" If there are 4+ turns left in the half, and the opponent is unlikely to get the ball or get a tackle zone on it, I don't consider it critical. If a block isn't entirely necessary for positioning, I don;t consider it necessary.

The key is to suffer as few "critical turnovers" as possible, so it's important to understand when picking up the ball is important, a dire emergency, a luxury, or a trivial waste of time! Same thing with blocks.

[Ullis]

I've found out that saving one TRR helps a lot. It allows you a lot of freedom to try out some marginally risky stuff such as a dodge with 3+ to block the ball carrier or passing or handing off to someone with no catch and AG3. You probably won't even have to reroll it, but without a reroll I probably wouldn't even try it.

Another thing I've found helps too is having more rerolls than your opponent.

This is coming mostly from Skaven, where the differences between Gutter Runners and other players is big, especially AG-wise, and being down on rerolls probably means being down on players too.