LRB6/CRP - Frenzy, Side Step and TDs

[WhatBall]

Hopefully a simple one to answer for Galak, DS, or others:

A frenzy player, with the ball, gets a push on a Side Step player who is in the EZ. The SSer moves out of the EZ and the Frenzy player moves in. Is this now a TD, or does the Frenzy player have to hit the SSer again and (potentially) end up outside the EZ and not score?

I believe the TD should count (I.e. the play should stop before the 2nd block) under CRP rules as they have changed from LRB5, but there is some debate.

Thanks!

(P.S. I know there are some older threads on this, but most relate to LRB5 and are not quite the same.)

[Darkson]

It's not a TD.

Scoring says at the end of the players action.

A team scores a touchdown during their turn when one of their players is standing in the opposing team"s End Zone while holding the ball at the end of any of your players' Actions.

Bolding theirs.
The players action hasn't finished until he throws the 2nd Block (see Frenzy rules).

What change compared to LRB5 are you talking about?

[WhatBall]

Thanks for the quick reply Darkson.

I thought there was a change in the wording about voluntary actions. I may be (likely) wrong.

[Darkson]

[Edit] Typing this as you posted.

What change compared to LRB5 are you talking about?

Ah, I'm guessing this part, to stop players running in and out of the EZ (which I never thought was a problem ).

If a player from the moving team enters (or was already in) the opposing team"s End Zone and has or
obtains the ball, then he may not voluntarily leave the End Zone for any reason during the same action nor may he hand-off or
pass the ball – he is far too intent on scoring the touchdown himself!

If that's what you mean, he's not voluntarily leaving the EZ, he has no choice in throwing the block and following up.

[RedDevilCG]

However, according to the FAQ in the CRP, if the ball was in the hands of the player BEING blocked by the frenzy player, a TD would be scored if that player was pushed into the enzone, and the frenzy player wouldn't get another block action.

I think from that ruling, the intention was to score a TD if any player enters the endzone, standing, and holding the ball, for any reason, even if it was in the middle of an action. If this was the intention of that ruling, then it could go against what you're saying Darkson.

[Grumbledook]

seems this was asked before and never actually answered

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24289

given that the frenzy player hasn't finished his action, the touchdown isn't scored, he can't voluntarily leave the end zone but frenzy forces a follow up, which may take him out of the end zone

that part was actually added in LRB5 according to my copy here, so it changed from LRB4 to 5 and not 5 to 6 (CRP)

so no touchdown


@reddevil you are correct, but that isn't the same as what the OP asked here

[GalakStarscraper]

We knew this was the one loop hole in the new rules about exiting the end zone with the ball. The only way to do it that we could see was the 2nd block of a Frenzy Block that pull you out after the first block pulled you in. We knew it was there and decided it was so rare that we were not going to add 100 extra words to the rules to prevent it.

Galak

[Darkson]

However, according to the FAQ in the CRP, if the ball was in the hands of the player BEING blocked by the frenzy player,

There is a difference in timing for scoring in your turn and scoring in your opponents turn.

[alternat]

IMO, since the TD is a turnover (as stated on page 7) and "any Action being taken ends immediatley, even if it was only partially completed" (on page 7, too), the frenzy player simply does not throw the second block, scores a TD and goes back to the dugout for a Deathorade before the next kick off.

that's what I'd rule it as a commish, anyway.

[GalakStarscraper]

IMO, since the TD is a turnover (as stated on page 7) and "any Action being taken ends immediatley, even if it was only partially completed" (on page 7, too), the frenzy player simply does not throw the second block, scores a TD and goes back to the dugout for a Deathorade before the next kick off.

that's what I'd rule it as a commish, anyway.

And that would be a house rule since the rules are very clear that you don't score until the end of the Action during your turn and that Frenzy cannot choice to not throw the 2nd block.

Galak

[Digger Goreman]

"He's clear to the end-zone and NO!, he chased after the snot before crossing the goal line!"

"What was he thinking?!!!"

"Well, obviously beserkers don't think...."

[alternat]

IMO, since the TD is a turnover (as stated on page 7) and "any Action being taken ends immediatley, even if it was only partially completed" (on page 7, too), the frenzy player simply does not throw the second block, scores a TD and goes back to the dugout for a Deathorade before the next kick off.

that's what I'd rule it as a commish, anyway.

And that would be a house rule since the rules are very clear that you don't score until the end of the Action during your turn and that Frenzy cannot choice to not throw the 2nd block.

Galak

the problem comes from the fact that page 7 (turnovers) and page 15 (touchdowns) contradicts each other.

one says that in case of turnover player's Action ends immediately, the other that in case of TD (that's on the turnover list, then, it's a turnover) player's Action must be completed.

which is the right one?

that's not a matter of houserule, it's a matter of chosing the version you like...

[Grumbledook]

page 7 says that a touchdown being scored is a turnover

page 15 says that this isn't a touchdown until the end of his action, frenzy means he moved out of the end zone involuntarily which is allowed, his action then ends and he isn't standing in the endzone with the ball at the end of his action so it isn't a touchdown, ergo page 7 doesn't apply

[garion]

But page 7 says any Action being taken ends immediately, even if it was only partially completed which this is. I really don’t think this is clear cut and I do think this is completely open to interpretation and I do understand both sides of the debate.

However taking a common sense approach it should clearly be a touch down because he entered the end zone and in American football if you enter the end zone with the ball it is a touch down end of discussion and this game is obviously based on that sport so I cannot see any good reason why it should not count as soon as you cross the line.

[RedDevilCG]

Seams pretty easy to fix then. Simply delete the part that says 'at the end of your action' for TDs and problem solved. It shouldn't be a 100 extra words to explain like Galak had mentioned, but actually minus some words!