Chaos Pact - Trollblanc asks for advice

[Trollblanc]

Sorry for hijacking my own thread - I figured instead of opening a thread for each question I'd rather post in "my own" thread when a question arises. (see last post)

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I got my first skill on my CP Dark Elf, listened to the guys from 3 die block and they suggested: wrestle, strip ball, leap
The question that arises for me is: You mark the cage, leap in there, might wrestle the other player down or strip ball him but.. then?

You're open to blocks and they might just kick the DE while he is down - what do I miss with this tactic?
Is there a "better" role for the guy? (I already try to get a Block, Tackle, Horns Skaven as safety)

[Joemanji]

If the ball is on the floor and you apply pressure with the rest of your team then your opponent won't have the luxury of concentrating on the DE.

[nick_nameless]

If you go that route, after leap consider VLL, which will have you leaping in on a 2+

[mattgslater]

Or Horns....

I wouldn't take VLL. Heck, I'd consider Pro over VLL, not that I'd take Pro. On an uncovered Leap, the difference between Pro and VLL is 1/18 of all Leaps, and on a successful Leap, Pro is usable on 1/2-die and 1-die blocks. So VLL doesn't pass the Pro test.

[MeatLoafX]

I stand by my suggestion on that episode, though you could obviously do a different way if you have a different playstyle. If you can consistently free the ball on defense another way, feel free to develop the DElf as a receiver, etc..

I have found that freeing the ball on defense means your opponent must concentrate on that turnover - not on just punching the Dark Elf. (as Joemangi suggests).

(If you're worried about it, though, take Dodge and dodge back out of the cage (generally a 3+).

My fourth pick would probably be Horns.

[Smeborg]

Trollblanc - you are correct to think of each player's role first, rather than immediately worrying about specific skill picks.

The question I think you are asking is whether to develop the DE renegade (a) as a Thrower type (for offense), or (b) as a Blitzer/Ball-hunter type (for defense). There is a third option, however, (c) which is as an agile utility player, equally useful on offense and defense, starting with Dodge.

I agree that the DE renegade, at least in theory, can be made into the "perfect" ball-hunter, with (say) Wrestle, Tackle, Leap, Horns, Pro, Dodge (or Dauntless). However, this build (which I like) is largely theorybowl, and you have to consider the practical considerations of how to get there (skill order) and whether the long wait makes sense in your environment. A ball-hunter with (say) Dodge, Wrestle, Horns, Tackle, 2-Heads, Pro is also viable and is perhaps more versatile and useful at lower skill levels.

In tournaments, Dodge is a popular choice on the DE. Combined with 2-Heads on the Gobbo, it means that you have 2 mobile utility players, who pose quite a threat, and can deliver assists almost at will. They also do not consume Team Re-rolls when dodging. When skills work well in tournaments, I like to ask the question: why not do the same in a league?

For your Skaven safety, I would have preferred Wrestle/Tackle/Horns (or Wrestle/Horns/Tackle), to be followed perhaps by 2-Heads and Pro (making a specialised ball hunter). One possibility on this team is to make all 3 renegades (DE, Skaven, Gobbo) into ball-hunting blitzers, making use of Horns (and leaving the Runner/Thrower roles to the Marauders, who do not have Animosity). This also has the advantage of making the renegades more expendable. Whether to give the DE Leap is a secondary consideration.

Define the roles clearly, and you will be fine. All the best.

[mattgslater]

Wait, an Animosity Thrower on a team full of P-access players without Animosity? That's kind of silly, no?

[Trollblanc]

Thank you for the inputs.
I went with dodge as the first skill now (you can't do much wrong with dodge I think).

I'll pilote my Duck & Cover II Team to our (mini - 4 teams) leagues Super Blood Bowl on Saturday - hopefully without my troll beeing really stupid about 37,5% of the time (I had 6 1's in 16 turns)

[B SIDE]

Wait, an Animosity Thrower on a team full of P-access players without Animosity? That's kind of silly, no?

QFT

Throwing and Strength skills, no less. Accurate and Strong Arm on normal rolls means you can have a pretty effective passer at 16SPP.

I'd keep the DE around as an offensive utility player/catcher. Just like the linerat. Leave the cage-breaking to a Break Tackle, SF Ogre.

[cyagen]

The DElf is your CP swiss knife. First 2 skills should be Dodge and Block. After that it depends how you personnaly used it. You could go Big Hand/extra arms to make him a retriver or Horns tackle and make him a saferty. That is the boring but efficient development track.

BUT,

A Horns, VLL and Leap DElf sounds sooooo much fun

[Bert]

Playing Pact this season and the plan I had for the delf was horns, frenzy, leap. Heh problem being the bastard died in the first game, apo got used on dead mino After 3 games I have him back now. The big thing about this team is to have an idea of what you want but be ready to change it at a moments notice. Doubles or a stat up will have a big factor in how your team will play cause really its all a bunch of linemen to begin with. After 3 games I got a jugg mino, 2 block marauders, +1 agi marauder(happened to be the one I was passing with) and doubles for block on the gobbo. Ive had the darkelf and a marauder die in those 3 games. Guess the dead elf helped spread out the SPP's

[Overhamsteren]

My plan is a bit boring block, dodge, sidestep, I rolled +AG on the first skill up but I think I will just stick with it. AG5 blodge sidestepper sounds annoying to me both as a catcher and a ball carrier harasser.

[mattgslater]

AG5? Cool. That's like Extra Arms, Accurate, Very Long Legs and Two Heads. Yeah, if you packaged Extra Arms, Accurate and Two Heads in with Very Long Legs for 20k, I'd take it over Block.

Maybe that means you want Wrestle in lieu of Block, so you can use him to attack the ball. You don't really need Leap if you have Dodge, but I say live for today, you know? If he lives to 51 SPP, Horns. 76 says Leap and Dodge, and thank your stars (don't thank Nuffle, or he'll repay you ).

If you get all normal roles, that Blodge/SS plan is not bad. But I'd totally derail an elf lino track for the killer ballhawk combo with the 2+ Leap and ST4 Wrestle Blitz.

[Trollblanc]

As already suggested by a couple of people I start thinking about where to go with my team before the actual skillups happen. My troll has been a real bummer so far, stupiding out about 40 % of the time - therefore he hasn't got any SSP.

I wondered about building him more defensive and dip a bit into nurgle by putting him on the line and playing him defensively.
I admit I crave for tentacles, I fear however that this might be a bad choice, if he doesn't have block along with it. (and 2 doubles is rather unlikely)

Is there a way to get a reliable tentacles troll with pact (perhaps skills I don't have thought of) - or should I just stick to the "boring" guard/stand firm/block on doubles route?

[Overhamsteren]

I thought all trolls belonged on the line.

So yeah guard/standfirm/grab (block/tenteacles/claw) probably restart if he doesn't get block by 3rd skill.