High Elf development on FUMBBL

[mattgslater]

Okay, I've run into a few things that I've never encountered, playing High Elves on FUMBBL.

My High Elves are doing pretty well, at 9-2-3. I've done a fair job of SPP distribution, and have most of my pieces in place. I have a few problems though. The team is, well, not bloated, but oversized and out-of-position, sort of in a "fit-but-fat" situation. Here's where I'm stumbling.

1) I made a mispick on the #2 Blitzer's second skill. He was supposed to take Dodge, but when I was skilling him I thought for some reason I was skilling #1, who already had Dodge. So now I have this Blitzer with SS and Tackle, and he's supposed to man my wing, but he keeps getting pinned down (or SI'ed ) because he doesn't have Dodge. Any recommendations on how to skill a Sidestep/Tackle Blitzer on a team with 3 SS'ers without ruining my tempo? He's one of my hardest hitters, he's a very good picket, and when an oppo is faced with an SS fence they tend to run at the guy without Dodge, you know? Also, what if he doubles? Guard? Or ignore and take Dodge?

2) I've got some Lino woes, and they're rich man's problems. I had a plan to keep 5 line players and 7 backfielders, and to build two different kinds of OLs out of the five players. When two of my three star Catchers were retired in the same game, I found myself low on Block, so I took Block out of turn on a lino, figuring that I'd make my Dodge guy who was near to improvement into a Blodger, and would soon have the ability to put up an all-Dodge line and an all-Block line. But then life intervened: my Dodge guy rolled an 11, and I got an MVP on a Journeyman. So I replaced one Catcher only, and even though I have the cash for another, my Dodge/+AG lino takes his spot. Does that mean I should keep with my original plan otherwise? This would have me running 7 Linemen on a 12-man team, which feels like a lot at peak development.

Here's where I am now, with 4x TRR, FF9 and 1.70M TV. Players who are about to skill are marked with
Blitzer x2: SS/Dodge/Tackle; SS/Tackle
Catcher x2: Block/Dodge/Leap; Dodge/Wrestle
Thrower x1: Dodge
Non-LOS Linos: Kick/Wrestle ; Dodge/AG5
LOS Linos: Dodge/SS; Dodge ; Block; Rookie ; Rookie

[garion]

I have a high elf team on fumbbl - http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=644355

At 14 games I had a similar record to you - 12 won 2 lost.
My record went on to improve and I was doing really well with them for a long time but then I started taking heavy cas around the 1800 - 2000TV mark and my team got completely destroyed the last 5 or 6 games now I have been trying to rebuild with a hugely unbalanced team my record is now - 33/5/10 so not quite as good anymore.

High Elves are probably the hardest team in the game to TV manage IMO. Their Catchers are insanely expensive as are their linemen like all Elf teams.

your team - http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=647457

The first thing i would do is drop a RR 4is too many. YOu should be able to cope fine with 3. I would get that blitzer Dodge asap. I would never turn up the chance to get guard though, any doubles pick guard, it is the difference between a good high elf team and a great one. I would also fire that Thrower and buy a new one, Niggles are too risky in a team once it reaches a high TV because people will be targetting him with all their fouls and PO players. When you get anew one build him like you normally would. I like to go Dodge, Block Leader because i almost never throw it further than a quick pass anyway. I usually throw quick pass to a near by catcher hand off then score. Or just loose cage and score depending on my opponent. Once you have got leader drop your RR to 2.

Like me you only have to catchers until they are skilled relatively well. I do this because they are inanely espensive for a player with no block or dodge. But once you get strip ball on your stripper catcher I would buy a third. You should get a back field defensive catcher, I like to go block, dodge, frenzy, tackle with him.

Give kick wrestle guy fend next although that is a ranked team so you probably wont face many bashy teams anyway. So dodge is also a good option.

Lineman 2 give wrestle to make hima LoS player once you become a 2000 TV+ team.

AG5 give block next. I dont like having wrestle on ag 5 gyuys because they can get fouled if they are on the floor again though not such a problem in ranked which generally has less fouling.

Rookie Lino, could go with a DP or juse make anotehr future LoS player Wrestle Dodge then fend if they live long enough

[nick_nameless]

Take the blitzer off the wing and put the Dodge/SS Lino there, until he gets his dodge.

Use him as a catcher to score your TDs for 2-3 games

[mattgslater]

Thanks!

I'll address these one at a time, starting with Garion:

RR: I was running 3x RR for the longest time. It felt like one too few, so I hired a fourth. In previous (tabletop) HE teams, I thought 3 felt right too, but here on FUMBBL I need the crutch for the time being.

Blitzers: My plan is: SS-Dodge-Tackle-DT-Fend. I see no reason to deviate so far.

Catchers: I made a huge mistake hiring Catcher #4 when I did; his presence paid for the bribe that got my +MA/Wrestle guy ST-lossed in the game where he got his third improvement. My plan was to have a Leap/Wrestle/Strip player, but the guy I had on line for that is no more, so I gave Leap to a Blodge guy. He's not the best cagebreaker, but he does change the way opponents scheme. I'm thinking of making him my Stripper despite the pick of Block over Wrestle; the difference is 20% (5/6 vs 4/6 to strip on 1d) against a Block carrier.

Thrower: I've been thinking about canning him. He's got 11 SPP... and the niggle got him KO'ed in the last game. But he's so good for drawing attention. He's 1-for-3 on 3+ passes, which is quite annoying, but I agree it probably doesn't merit Accurate on that alone. Block is definitely the #2 skill for this player. As for Leader, I'm not sure. Leader saves 30k TV, but Accurate lets me contemplate bombing into coverage if the play breaks down or if I recover near the EZ. Also, since we're talking about a Blodger, an Accurate Thrower can mark key blitzer types and still QP on a 2. My TT guy, without Block, does that to big guys and other non-Block scaries, though I should probably dump the niggling guy and start over if I plan on doing that. I just hate throwing away SPP, and most of the time the NI doesn't matter.

Kicker: I've actually been thinking about giving him some kind of specialty skill. He gets hit some, so Dodge or Fend wouldn't be awful, but Frenzy would sure give my team some extra pizazz. I've considered Dauntless, but I'd really get good use out of a Frenzy guy, and I'd rather get coverage skills for the Blitzers.

Linemen: The original plan was this: 1x SS-Dodge, 2x-Dodge-Fend, 1x Block-SS, 1x Block-Fend. That way, I'd be able to field an all-Dodge line, an all-Block line, or an all-Fend line, with or without SS'ers manning key points (nose in the IZ, inside end in my asymmetric offense). My noseguard has been stuck on 16 SPP for the longest time, and he's clearly the "captain" of the DL. for this reason, a Blodge DL is probably a forlorn hope; I don't see how I'm going to develop enough guys far enough to run such an animal and still keep any SS or Fend on the roster, at least from among these players. I decided on Block rather than Wrestle because in Ranked most people want to play my HE with their lighter teams. I have two Wrestlers for Wrestle-specific tasks.

Now, with 7 linos, I'm considering keeping with this basic plan. The 5-SPP guy (#15 or #16, the former JM) will get Dodge, because in Ranked I mostly face AG teams and low-AV bashers like Pact and Norse, who tend to put big guys on the o-line. I don't want to be too courageous skill-wise with the AG5 guy; he'll get Block at 31 and SS at 51.

Doubles: On the Linemen or Throwers or on Rush Moore (the Dodge Blitzer), it would be Guard of course. I'd probably do the same on Rocky or the Catchers, though I'd rather they fall on the other guy.

Stats: I have a +AG lino; I'm planning on turning down anything but +ST on linos. Positionals take what they can get. If Rush gets a 10, I'd contemplate AV, but I'm not so sure.

[garion]

You definately need to get a frenzy player soon. I like frenzy on a catcher that way they can cover the back field really well and will get ample chances to surf.

Leader isnt so important, only a small saving there anyway. But you should definately drop a RR. and increase of 50 is really big. The more skills your team has the less you should need re-rolls with elves anyway. I havent had a chance to watch replays but as a general rule I never re-roll blocks if they arent causing a turn over(obviously there are rare exceptions). I dont know if you have been or not. But that might be a way of limiting your RR usage.

But really I think you should retire the team and start again in the box. It is a whole diffirent ball game in there You will face far tougher challanges in B than you have in R and from what I can tell you seem to be used to the client now and have sped up your game a lot.

[mattgslater]

Yeah. I tested the waters in with an Orc team, went 1-1-1, realized I was still too clumsy on FUMBBL, figured I'd come back about now. I built a HE team for the 'Box a couple days ago, but haven't played it yet. I took 3 Catchers, because it's much easier to score (with anyone) if you can keep two on the field.

Watching the replays, I'm kind of with you on the TRRs. That 4th RR gets some use late in games, particularly late in close games. It really gives me some flexibility, but I'm not sure it pulls its weight. I bought it after a streak of games where at least half my TRRs (on 5/6, 8/9 or 35/36) failed, and I found myself frequently looking at late/hard actions without coverage.

Frenzy on the Wrodge Catcher and Strip on the Blodge/Leaper? That frees me up to get Dodge on the Kicker.

Also, should I revisit my lino plan? Should I go for Blodge (apart from the one SS) first and only think of Fend at 31 SPP? That would mean I'd be vulnerable to POMB well after I start seeing it (in fact, I'm already starting to see it).

@nick-nameless: I'm thinking I'll run an asymmetric defense against slower teams, and use Rocky (the non-Dodge Blitzer) as an inside picket near the off-side WZ marker. That way he can jump on the ball. On offense, he'll be a cager and line-blocker.

[garion]

@nick-nameless: I'm thinking I'll run an asymmetric defense against slower teams, and use Rocky (the non-Dodge Blitzer) as an inside picket near the off-side WZ marker. That way he can jump on the ball. On offense, he'll be a cager and line-blocker.

Thats excatly what i do. Asymetrical defences rule for messing up bash teams

[mattgslater]

@nick-nameless: I'm thinking I'll run an asymmetric defense against slower teams, and use Rocky (the non-Dodge Blitzer) as an inside picket near the off-side WZ marker. That way he can jump on the ball. On offense, he'll be a cager and line-blocker.

Thats excatly what i do. Asymetrical defences rule for messing up bash teams

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|05 15 02 -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- 10|-- -- 04 --
-- 09 -- --|03 -- -- 06 -- 08 --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- 07|-- -- 01 -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

#5 (the rook) is surfable with Frenzy... but it's 5 blocks by 4 players, and more or less guarantees that the ball has to cross the whole backfield before I can cut it off. Even if he's gaming for push over pow (foolish), his odds are only about 10%.

I'm thinking if I want to cut that Thrower, maybe I should put him on the DL, huh? In the next match (while #15 is still a rookie), I'm tempted to bench #15 on D, so I can protect him long enough to give him his Comp for Dodge.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

3, 1 and 6 aren't doing a whole lot in that picture. just go for the standard offset zig.

[mattgslater]

3, 1 and 6? They're in position. For one thing, my spine screen is 9-3-6-10-4.

3 and 6 are protecting 1, who is playing safety. 6 is also AG5 and is in position to go wherever he needs to be. 3 will probably be a little OOP when the turn comes, but a) he can reposition nicely, b) if there's nobody there I leave a gap and an exposed Catcher, and c) Block alone is sort of a white elephant on defense; I took it because I didn't have enough Block on offense, and I'm already convinced it was a mistake. Not a terrible one, but Dodge or SS would have been better at things that matter more.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

I like this set up, I am sure you could fit your team into it somehow.

[garion]

@nick-nameless: I'm thinking I'll run an asymmetric defense against slower teams, and use Rocky (the non-Dodge Blitzer) as an inside picket near the off-side WZ marker. That way he can jump on the ball. On offense, he'll be a cager and line-blocker.

Thats excatly what i do. Asymetrical defences rule for messing up bash teams

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|05 15 02 -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- 10|-- -- 04 --
-- 09 -- --|03 -- -- 06 -- 08 --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- 07|-- -- 01 -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

#5 (the rook) is surfable with Frenzy... but it's 5 blocks by 4 players, and more or less guarantees that the ball has to cross the whole backfield before I can cut it off. Even if he's gaming for push over pow (foolish), his odds are only about 10%.

I'm thinking if I want to cut that Thrower, maybe I should put him on the DL, huh? In the next match (while #15 is still a rookie), I'm tempted to bench #15 on D, so I can protect him long enough to give him his Comp for Dodge.

10 and 4 are too lose to the LoS. they will be hit if quick snap is rolled on the kick off table also 9 is easily srufed with frenzy and even if your opponent doesnt have frenzy he will likely be pinned against the side of the pitch in the first turn anyway.

I go for something more simple like this

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-- -- -- --|05 15 02 -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |-- --  -- --
-- -- 09 --|-- 03 -- -- 06 -- --|10 -- -- --
-- 07 -- --|01 -- -- 08 -- -- 04|-- -- -- --

Against bashers it makes very little difference leaving a gap on the right side of the pitch in this diagram. If they try and send too many players down there quickly then you should be able to force them into scoring quickly or pin them against the side of the pitch completly and stop them from scoring at all. It also encourages them to split up there team, a number fo players to deal with people on the LoS and a number fo player to attempt to exploit the gap. Splitting up a bashy team like this can cause them big problems.

[nick_nameless]

Note: This is a bit of a thread hijack....with a link to another thread in case you care to pursue the discussion

I really need to start putting some effort into learning how to play out of a assymetrical defense with my Slann team

I would like to practice some on FUMBBL, but my woes in getting that started are for another topic. I have not found it to be entirely Mac friendly.

In any event, I have been playing a base Zig for the most part, because I feel like it's the best way to shield my catchers from harm with the pieces I currently have developed. My plan was to develop into a crossbow style or inverted zig style, depending on the development of the team. Something that keeps my catchers towards the center of the D, shielded from initial rush by the receiving team.

How might you apply an off-center style defense with the Slann? It seems like to do this, at least while I don't have a full roster, I would be exposing my weaker pieces to blitzes.

EDIT: Jimmy Fantastic...that's...Fantastic

I think I should maybe try something like this.

[garion]

For slann just go for something like this if you want to protect your catchers

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-- -- -- --|XX XX XX -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |-- --  -- --
-- -- XX --|-- XX -- -- KK -- --|XX -- -- --
-- -- -- CC|-- CC -- -- CC -- CC|-- -- -- --

CC=Catchers
KK = Krox if you have one
XX = linemen

Also if you are having trouble getting fumbbl started send me a PM with the problem and I will let you know how to fix it. Macs are very compatible with fumbbl that will not be the problem the likely cause of the problem is a Java issue. but let me know anyway and i will see what i can do.

[nick_nameless]

For slann just go for something like this if you want to protect your catchers

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|XX XX XX -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |-- --  -- --
-- -- XX --|-- XX -- -- KK -- --|XX -- -- --
-- -- -- CC|-- CC -- -- CC -- CC|-- -- -- --

CC=Catchers
KK = Krox if you have one
XX = linemen

Also if you are having trouble getting fumbbl started send me a PM with the problem and I will let you know how to fix it. Macs are very compatible with fumbbl that will not be the problem the likely cause of the problem is a Java issue. but let me know anyway and i will see what i can do.

Thanks!

Next time I try to get into it I will make a few notes. The issue was definitely java related, and in the beginner area (which I understand might be different from, say, the Black Box division)