Shadowing and Diving Tackle

kadu-c · Post by **kadu-c** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:47 pm

A player has these 2 skills.
Is it possible for him to use Diving Tackle, if he has just failed his Shadowing move ???

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:26 pm

No, because the opposing player must make his dodge roll to leave the square (and then move to it, if successful) before you make any shadowing roll. So you must declare the diving tackle BEFORE he rolls to dodge, but you may only use shadowing AFTER he has moved away. And if you do declare a diving tackle, you'll be on the floor, and so obviously won't be shadowing....

kadu-c · Post by **kadu-c** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:32 pm

Nazgit wrote:you must declare the diving tackle BEFORE he rolls to dodge

Are you sure ? I checked in the OBERWALD, and you can choose to use Diving Tackle after seeing the Dodge result of your opponent.

I precise my question: the opposing player dodges, I try to Shadow him, I fail, then can I use Diving Tackle to modify the Dodge roll ?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:43 pm

No, because the diving tackle is used on the dodge action, and the dodge action must be completed before you go on to your shadowing.

kadu-c · Post by **kadu-c** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:00 am

@Darkson
Thank you ! I think I will sleep better tonight !

honeycomb kid · Post by **honeycomb kid** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:03 am

To paraphrase, you must decide whether or not to use D.T. right after the opponent rolls for the dodge (before you roll for shadowing). ie. the dodge result (incl. possible D.T.'s) must be resolved before rolling for shadowing.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:04 am

Darkson is right.

kadu-c wrote:I checked in the OBERWALD, and you can choose to use Diving Tackle after seeing the Dodge result of your opponent.

Are you sure? The 2002 annual says:

"The player may use this skill if an opposing player attempts to dodge out of his tackle zone. Place the player using this skill prone, but do not make an Armour or Injury roll for them. The opposing player must then subtract -2 from his Dodge roll..."

Note - "must then"

I think you are confusing the new rule that allows you to use a skill after seeing the result of the dice roll, unless otherwise stated. It is here clearly stated otherwise. The player is placed prone only if you use the skill. And you must place the player prone BEFORE the dodge roll. Ergo - you must choose whether or not to use the skill BEFORE the dodge roll.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:10 am

Sorry Nazgit, but you can choose to use DT after the dice roll for the dodge.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:19 am

Darkson wrote:Sorry Nazgit, but you can choose to use DT after the dice roll for the dodge.

Absoluely correct. DT can be used after seeing the result of the Dodge ... if the player falls the first Dodge and rerolls it ... you can wait to even see the result of the reroll before declaring it.

There is no question as to this being the rules ... its been beat into the ground before so far I'm not sure I see the top of the topic anymore.

Galak

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:20 am

Cool. If that's what people play, then I'll happily accept it.

But could you explain your reasoning?

Has there been an update from fanatic that I've missed? 'Cos the rule itself seems absolutely clear cut.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:28 am

Ah-ha!

Found it.

Check down to Galak's post, last but one on the first page.

viewtopic.php?t=4526

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:01 am

Sweet table!

But I understand all that stuff fine.

My query was: where does it state that you can use DT AFTER the opponent rolls the dice? But I suppose it isn't 'otherwise stated' that you can't. Which means, according to LRB, that you can....

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:06 am

Nazgit wrote:Cool. If that's what people play, then I'll happily accept it.

But could you explain your reasoning?

Has there been an update from fanatic that I've missed? 'Cos the rule itself seems absolutely clear cut.

Its because you are focusing too much on one word in the skill description.

Okay your comment:

Place the player using this skill prone in the square vacated by the dodging player, but do not make an Armour or Injury roll for them. The opposing player must then subtract -2 from his Dodge roll for leaving the player’s tackle zone.

Your contention is that that the "then subtract" mean "then roll the dice" ... uh uh ... the correct read is that the Dodge roll that has already been made then subtracts 2 from its result to determine the final outcome.

And the part that you are probably not seeing is the description of how skills work on page 15 of the LRB 2.0:

Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it, and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice.

and

Some skills are also used in the opponent’s team turn. In this case you may choose to use the skill after an opposing player carries out an action or moves a square.

Combine the 2 above rules for how skills work with the correct read of "then subtract" and you'll see that its pretty clear that Diving Tackle can be used after the Dodge roll is made. The 3rd quote above should really make it clear I think.

Galak

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:16 am

This seems to come up every month or two. Perhaps the DT rule description needs to be clarified?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:19 am

Skummy wrote:This seems to come up every month or two. Perhaps the DT rule description needs to be clarified?

Its on the hot list already with a slightly revised wording suggestion included.

Galak