Allied Player Question

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:09 pm

Here's a possible penalty for having an ally: once you buy one, your team disbands in disgust!

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:00 pm

Democritus wrote:well chaos would then never get an dark elf on its team, that is the point!

Well, then, who do you propose would get the Wood Elf lineman? He'd be too much of an addition on any roster other than a Wood Elf roster.

Allies are a bad idea all around. If you add them, you purposely have to leave some races out because they will add to greatly to their adopted team. Others you have to stretch to make them fit. Allies detract more than they add and arent' even, remotely necessary. If you came up with a way to add them that wouldn't set the BB world on it's ear, we'd all listen and hail you as a genius. till then, though, all ideas proposed have been broken and should be tweaked further or, better yet, discarded altogether.

harley_topper · Post by **harley_topper** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:11 pm

If you play with allies you will destroy the strengths and weaknesses of each team/race.
So I think allies are a bad idea.

Post by **Dave** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:12 pm

that's why I like the pact teams better.
They can't really play any strenghts as they have many different specialists, that are quite good in their respective teams but less when being a loner..

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:11 pm

From a fluff point of view I do, and always have, liked allies. Unforunately, I've never seen a balanced way of including them

, so I have to say no allies.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:41 pm

A lot of us probably feel the same way. The idea is great and has a place in our game. Unfortunately, all the ideas that have been put forward have upset the balance of the teams so we still have no allies and no good proposals. Let's not have any allies just for the sake of having allies until someone figures out a way to incorporate them without destroying what is now a challenging and enjoyable game.

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:46 am

We have an ally system that has worked for the last year and a half (with minor tweaking here and there) and the main reason is that we didn't rely on fluff and looked at team types. Each race has a specific ally list that they can draw from. The list will be like minded/style teams (good w/good bad w/bad). No team with access to 4 str players can get a 4 ag player (so no DE on a Chaos team) and no teams with access to 4 ag players can get a 4 str player. Humans have the broadest access to allies (as was fitting) and humans would love the occasional Wood Elf lineman for speed and Ag purposes. One other stipulation is that there can be no more than 3 allies (including a big guy if you can get one) on a team.

Certain teams are never allies, such as the Undead team (they need their Necro coach), so no mummies running around on Orc teams.

Other than that an ally is a member of the team. Rerolls work, no special rules guiding their play style etc.

At first we did have some problems...gutter runners on Chaos, but we refined it to bring everything more in balance and so far it has worked wonderfully. Teams still play the base way with slightly more flexiblity for roster.

The biggest change that I have noticed is the awesome usefulness of Beastmen. Easily one of the most utilized allies in the system. Orc teams, Chaos Dwarf teams and Undead teams utilize them to great effect.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:09 am

I'm sceptial, but willing to listen - post your lists.

Post by **Dave** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:06 pm

same here.

What defines 'hitting - agility ?? '

Got problems with Norse (not that hittinh IMHO)

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:02 pm

Khrage wrote:The biggest change that I have noticed is the awesome usefulness of Beastmen. Easily one of the most utilized allies in the system. Orc teams, Chaos Dwarf teams and Undead teams utilize them to great effect.

Beastmen are really good blood bowl players. They're natural blitzers, and with a few advances they can be really nasty.

Please, post your allies list. I'm interested to see if I can spot any potential points of abuse.

slup · Post by **slup** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:01 am

We use allies to, our houserule is:
Each race has two allied races.
Each team has two special player positions.

One special player position can be spent on:
a position player (non-lineman) with ST<5
an allied lineman

Both special player positions can be spent on:
a big guy
a position player with ST >=5 (ie mummies)
an allied position player (non-lineman) with ST<5

You may not use both special player positions on two identical players, like Gutterrunners.
Except for stuntyteams, this is the only way to get big guys.

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:06 pm

Damn, didn't realize so many people were interested. Should have come back earlier.

Hitting=High str and teams that rely on cages and hitting. In other words teams that go with a bash style play. Dave, we had problems with figuring out where Norse and Amazon should fit, but we ranked Norse as Hitters b/Block and blitzers and 'Zons as Agility b/Dodge.

Ok, I am going to have to go by memory here, as I don't have my rule book with me. The teams I forget I will add later.

Max of three allies total, including big guy. No more than one type(position) of ally per race, so no 3 chaos warriors.

Chaos
Orc, Goblin, Ogre, Minotaur, Norse

Chaos Dwarf (my new favourite)
Orc, Chaos, Troll, Minotaur

Orc
Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Norse, Goblin, Ogre, Troll

Dwarf
Human, Norse, Ogre,

Amazon
Human, High elf

Dark Elf
Skaven, Goblin, Minotaur

Skaven
Dark Elf, Rat Ogre, Minotaur

Human
Norse, Amazon, High Elf, Dwarf, Wood Elf, Halfling, Ogre

Norse
Chaos, Orc, Ogre, Dwarf

High Elf
Human, Wood Elf, Treeman (IIRC), Halfling

Undead
Chaos, Orc

Lizardman
Human, Krox

Thats all I can remember for now.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:07 pm

The most obvious problem with your system is that it's better to have allies than not to have them. That's a problem because

1- The fluff says that teams with allies always perform poorly (with the exception of the chaos All-Stars).
2- It means that people who don't like allies still have to take them just to compete.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:09 pm

slup wrote:We use allies to, our houserule is:
Each race has two allied races.
Each team has two special player positions.

One special player position can be spent on:
a position player (non-lineman) with ST<5
an allied lineman

Both special player positions can be spent on:
a big guy
a position player with ST >=5 (ie mummies)
an allied position player (non-lineman) with ST<5

You may not use both special player positions on two identical players, like Gutterrunners.
Except for stuntyteams, this is the only way to get big guys.

Now, that's an interesting system. However, i could see many skaven teams with 3 storm vermins and 5 gutter runners using those rules. Wood elf teams with 3 wardancers also come to mind.

It also helps teams that don't currently have a big guy, and doesn't help those that have one, which is quite unfair and unbalancing. I guess if you drop the extra positional players that teams without a big guy got to compensate, and drop 2 blitzers from the amazon team, then it's fair.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:37 pm

Khrage: Potential points of abuse as I see them are:

1. Bull Centaur on Orc team.
2. Up to 3 Elves on Amazon team.
3. Wardancer and Trollslayer on Human team.
4. Wardancer on High Elf team.
5. Humans on Lizardman team.