Balancing Diving Catch

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Tim
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Balancing Diving Catch

Post by Tim »

As we all think this skill is the worst AG skill, how about giving it an uplift:

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If a ball drops, scatters or bounces into an unoccupied square next to the player, he can try a free move into this square (dodging, etc. apply), in order to try to catch it. [Add stuff about, diving, not falling, no TO]. This skill can not be used in the opponents turn. The use of diving catch gives a -1 modifier on the catch roll to be done afterwards.
I see some additional use for this skill:

- I can use this guy to mark the ball before a pickup and if i fail, i still have a chance to have the ball in my hand (TO applies anyway).

- If my catcher is marked by 2 or more players, but has a square next to him without tacklezones, i could target this square with a pass, make a dodge to there (if accurate) and catch with a -1 modifier only.

- Possibilty to gain a +1 Movement when i pass the ball to an empty square next to a diving catch player, with the tradeoff of a more difficult catch roll. So i can stop my catcher one square from the endzone, then target an adjecent square in the endzone. If the pass is accurate (it better be!), the catcher moves into the endzone to catch (with a -1 mod).

*could be used to one-turn-score in combo with Ma9 and spint, however with some additional risk due to the pass and worse catching roll. Pass Block would be a heck of a skill to stop this move, though.

btw: you can not hand off into an empty square, can you?

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Re: Balancing Diving Catch

Post by Darkson »

Tim wrote:btw: you can not hand off into an empty square, can you?
No, has to be to a player.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

I've seen a pretty nasty Lustrian team with Diving Catch Skinks.

But I will admit the concept you propose has some merit Tim ... I just really don't like interrupt skills which is what this makes Diving Catch.

The less interrupt skills in the game the better in my opinion.

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Post by Tim »

GalakStarscraper wrote: But I will admit the concept you propose has some merit Tim ... I just really don't like interrupt skills which is what this makes Diving Catch.

The less interrupt skills in the game the better in my opinion.
What do you mean by interrupt? It says explicitly that you can not use it in the opponents turn. So it's only a free action interrupting an action of another player on the same team (in case of a pass, but that does the original diving catch as well) or in case of a fumble, failed pick (but your turn ends there anyway).

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

My bad ... sorry ... I'll rethink

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Post by Tim »

:D

It's basicly the concept of the old skill, missing the "pass only" and "pass must be targeted at him" part, but adding a -1 to catch to balance out (fits the fluff as well) and makes the movement subject to a dodge (free movement and no catching modifier would be better than the NOS trait if there's a TZ free square next to the catcher).

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Post by Darkson »

Just so I'm 100% certain on this, is the -1 always in effect, or only in the extra instances you've listed above?

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Post by Tim »

Always -1 to catch if you used the skill to get into that field.

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Re: Balancing Diving Catch

Post by Skummy »

Tim wrote:As we all think this skill is the worst AG skill, how about giving it an uplift:
I actually rate Sprint as a worse skill.

If you want to pump up Diving Catch, you could change it to let the player "recieve" a handoff from a stationary player. It would be a throwback to the old 3rd ed rules.

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Re: Balancing Diving Catch

Post by Tim »

Skummy wrote: I actually rate Sprint as a worse skill.
Hmm, it still has a good use on one-turners and i'd take sprint over DC for gobbos, flings and skinks anytime.
Skummy wrote: If you want to pump up Diving Catch, you could change it to let the player "recieve" a handoff from a stationary player. It would be a throwback to the old 3rd ed rules.
That would be something i really don't want to see again. MAYBE as a trait.

I like it how the new handover rules stress the longer passing game.
Playing Skaven most in 3rd Ed. it was just too easy to run-quickpass to GR-run-dodgeout other GR-take handover-score to get the ball from your endzone to the other.

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Re: Balancing Diving Catch

Post by GalakStarscraper »

Tim wrote: That would be something i really don't want to see again. MAYBE as a trait.

I like it how the new handover rules stress the longer passing game.
Playing Skaven most in 3rd Ed. it was just too easy to run-quickpass to GR-run-dodgeout other GR-take handover-score to get the ball from your endzone to the other.
I'm with Tim on that one ... don't want to ever see the old handoff rules come back even as a skill.

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Post by Skummy »

Yeah, I guess I might not either upon further reflection. It jumped to mind pretty quickly, is all.

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Post by wesleytj »

it seems that i'm in the minority, as usual, but i totally miss that. the fluidity of the game lost by the new handoff stuff sucks to me. and i say that not only as an elf coach, but the rest too.

i thought that was what made the faster teams scary...they have a little more trouble stopping you on defense, but if they do manage it, you will pay. plus it wasn't unbeatable...if i'm running a lone catcher out away from the play to be the scorer, you can very easily go put somebody on that catcher, or blitz them depending on circumstances.

i do still at least think the forced catch rule should be revisited. that's what really hurts that type of game. i do everything right, set up a blitz and knock the ball loose, and the guy who was standing there to give an assist catches the ball...and since he's already gone it's stuck there, so he can get clobbered next turn. ?!?! :cry:

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Post by Toby »

Regarding Diving Catch:

A player with this skill should be allowed to move 1 Square IF this move enables him to catch the football.

no matter where the ball was thrown, kicked or bounced to.

This would allow what a lot of people are not eve aware that it is not allowed:

use multiple Diving Catch players to cover more of the field (in combination with hail marry).

I think it might be cool to place the player prone, but without an armour roll or turnover. So that standing up after a Diving Catch costs 3 Squares of movement.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

wesleytj wrote:it seems that i'm in the minority, as usual, but i totally miss that. the fluidity of the game lost by the new handoff stuff sucks to me. and i say that not only as an elf coach, but the rest too.
Yeah Wes ... definite minority on that one.
i do still at least think the forced catch rule should be revisited. that's what really hurts that type of game
You and me and a ton of other folks on that one sir. In fact about the only folks on the board that I've really seen argue FOR forced catches have been the BBRC members. Personally I'd like to see an end to both FORCED catches and FORCED pick-ups. Gall the Thrall is dead, and folks living still in 3rd edition (I'll avoid names) should wake up and realize where the game actually went.

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