Multiple block and assists.

[Zy-Nox]

This is pretty difficult to explain but i'll give it a go.
Sort of diagram to explain.

OX
BX Ok this is the situation.

B has multiple block and dauntless,is attempting to block the X's,he beats the dauntless roll 7+ so gets a 1db against them,but wants to claim an assist from O in order to get 2 dice. Is this a viable option or do assists need to be on both players and not in any opposing Tackle zones.
And could O assist if it was like this(same MB)
O
XX Where he is in both TZs?
B
If any body can clarify this I would be very grateful

[Ancalagon]

A player can only asist if he's not on the zone of another player from the op. team unless it has guard skill. So "O" cannot assist this block unless you put it in contact of one of the x but out of the zone of the other x. Hope it helps.

[plasmoid]

Hi Zy-nox.
I agree with the above reply.

actually, it prompts another comment:
Since the victims are (apparantly) still considered 2 individual players, I guess that this means that you can't be dauntless against their combined strength.

Being 2 individual victims - could you, in a 2 die block, pick 1 block die result for each victim? "suffer the effects of the block equally" is a bit ambiguous, but does seem to imply otherwize.

And how about multiple block and frenzy.

Geeez - multiple block definately needs clearer wording.

[Acerak]

If you ask me, Multiple Block needs elimination

But seriously, that's not going to happen. To clear up the questions:

1. You're not supposed to get an assist from O. This isn't entirely clear, but I have it on good authority that this is how the rule is "supposed" to be played.
2. Yes, you can Dauntless against both opponents!
3. You can't Frenzy on a Multiple Block. From the Rules Review: "Frenzy is not used with secret weapon attacks or with any other kind of attack other than a straightforward normal Block!"
4. The rules for rolling Blocks state that you can only ever use one die, no matter how many dice are rolled. Any circumvention of this is due less to ambiguity of the MBlock rule than to beardiness on the part of the coach who suggests such a thing!

Cheers.

-Chet

[sean newboy]

2. Yes, you can Dauntless against both opponents

I did not realize that. I think this would be a good clarification/ Q&A comment. We always played it where u could only use it against 1 player per action/turn(for 1 player). Which was still useful if u wanted to multiblock say a st 5 guy and his st 2 helper, but this is much better.

[Zy-Nox]

That kind of cleared up the problem but I then went and re read the rules for assisting in a block. It states the assisting player must be in the TZ of the player being blocked and in no other opposing TZ, But in a MB Because two players are the target (ie being blocked)couldn't a player stand in both there TZ's and claim an assist,
I know this kind of contradicts the rules but in a way i think it doesnt.

[Acerak]

That kind of cleared up the problem but I then went and re read the rules for assisting in a block. It states the assisting player must be in the TZ of the player being blocked and in no other opposing TZ, But in a MB Because two players are the target (ie being blocked)couldn't a player stand in both there TZ's and claim an assist, I know this kind of contradicts the rules but in a way i think it doesnt.

I agree with you, and that's certainly one way to interpret it. According to "Johnson's Razor," when two rules seem at odds, the solution shall be the one that "brings equilibrium," something like that. Basically, you make life as difficult as you can for the coach who already has the advantage so one guy already gets to hit two players at once, so those player are allowed to keep things fair by canceling out assists on each other.

The BBRC will spell this out in October one way or the other. In the meantime, use whatever works for your league.

-Chet

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
yep - multiple block is a nightmare. Clarification will be nice.

1. The assist rule implies that the victims are treated as 2 players.
2. The dauntless rule implies that the victims are treated as 1 player. (No Johnsons razor here then )
4. The blocking die rule implies that the victims are treated as 1 player.

Heck, changing the assist rule to comply with the 2 others looks pretty good to me

As for:
>3. You can't Frenzy on a Multiple Block. From the Rules Review: "Frenzy
>is not used with secret weapon attacks or with any other kind of attack
>other than a straightforward normal Block!"

Duly noted.
I wouldn't have guessed that using frenzy skill constitutes a "kind of attack". I figure this isn't the case for tackle or block

Martin

[Zy-Nox]

I didnt know that about frenzy and MB. Its certainly going to make the two troll slayers(in my friends dwarf team) Less of a problem, but not much, Both with MB and dauntless plus Longbeards with gaurd is a lot of hitting power, Two guys can potentialy nail four of mine.
I'm beginning to think I wouldnt mind seeing it made into a trait, mainly because I was thinking of a wardancer with multiple block and dauntless .It would take a couple of doubles but not impossible and I believe it is still a nasty skill combo.
Making it a trait would stop Dark Elf Blitzers,Dragon warriors,and Dancers from getting it, Or is that wrong?

[Acerak]

That's wrong. First, Multiple Block just isn't "trait-like." Second, what do you care if they take it? They don't come with Dauntless; their teams don't have access to Guard without more doubles rolls. Heck, I'd WELCOME such a waste of a skill roll.

-Chet

[sean newboy]

I agree wholeheartedly with Acerak on this one.

[Acerak]

Here's the best choice of Multiple Block that I've seen on an Elf team:

A Dark Elf team was taking on a fearsome vanilla Undead team. This team had Luthor, 2+ Regeneration, a pair of DP/MB Mummies (back before WD182, when those skills could combo), and some DP Ghouls. VERY nasty team.

The Dark Elf coach pulled Inspiration, so he rolled a skill for a Dark Elf Lineman and got doubles. He promptly gave him Multiple Block.

We were all wondering "WTF?" when he set up on offense and crushed Luthor AND two Mummies with Rakarth's Spell of Obliteration

After that, the player wasn't so useful. In fact, he probably got killed that very game.

-Chet

[Longshot]

If the two blocked players are treated like 1 player, i dont see why assist cant be done?

[Acerak]

Try this:

The opponent with Multiple Block treats them as one player, so he can hit them both with one die roll. Everyone else - the players being blocked, plus any players attempting to assist them - treat the player separately.

And if that doesn't help, just go with what works for your league!

-Chet

[Longshot]

ok, it 'seems' like we play it.