What do you start a Skaven team with?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:15 pm

berserker wrote:ST5+ players are not that common among rookie team luckily (except for undeads...)

Some coaches will start their team with a Big Guy. If I knew there was a Wild Animal in the league I may take on just for that.

Flyin' Fling · Post by **Flyin' Fling** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:59 pm

well, I start my skaven teams in unusual ways. dunno why.

used to go for the "let's build a solid team, then get the stars" approach of

2 SV
2 throwers
7 linos
4 RR
9 FF

that worked out alright...

but then I thought, hell, I'm playing skaven to mess around with GR, so I started again with

4 GR
7 Linos
4 RR
9 FF

and despite some early deaths among the linefodder, that is working out pretty good too.

Though you're probably better of with a combination. I'm just weird.
But I'm firmly in the "no Rat Ogre" camp.
that big guy is just too much of a liability.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:29 am

ianwilliams wrote:
Cooper wrote:Basically, he is GREAT in a starting league...when your opponents are of about the same TR as you are...as soon as they've got specialised players it might be another matter.
I stick my rookie Ogre/Troll/Tree in front your rookie Rat Ogre you will turn over more than 1/3 of the time.

If you get one of those next to my RO i played so bad i deserve to get a Turnover. (especially a TREE?...)
W

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:30 am

Not to mention that only works when the troll is the only opponent next to the rat ogre.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:52 am

Cooper wrote:If you get one of those next to my RO i played so bad i deserve to get a Turnover. (especially a TREE?...)
W

Okay, maybe not a tree

To stop me with an Ogre you'll have to man mark my BG - which suits me just fine (Av7 rats squash easily) and I don't mind man-marking your rookie RO as that's a 1/9 chance of you'll turnover right at the beginning of your turn.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:10 am

ianwilliams wrote:
Cooper wrote:If you get one of those next to my RO i played so bad i deserve to get a Turnover. (especially a TREE?...)
W
Okay, maybe not a tree

To stop me with an Ogre you'll have to man mark my BG - which suits me just fine (Av7 rats squash easily) and I don't mind man-marking your rookie RO as that's a 1/9 chance of you'll turnover right at the beginning of your turn.

Well, first you'll have to HAVE an Ogre on your rookie team, second my RatOgre is a lot faster then your Ogre (especially since usually the Ogre starts at the LoS), He'll need a few turns to get away from there.
And if you man-mark my RO, that is the fastest way to get him the block skill

W

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:07 am

Not if your RO block anything like mine

Robotorz · Post by **Robotorz** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:38 pm

Starting with GR can turn out bad as well! If you do start with them dont play dwarfs (tackle!) but I would advise against that. Give your team at least the chance to develop a bit before buyig a GR.

Go with the Cockerel Flying Fling suggested.

DOnt know about rat ogres. DOnt like Wild animals at all but I have seen some outperform all other big guys (and even whole teams) like this one:
A guy in our league has a ST 6 Ag 4 Block, Pro, Pilling On, Break Tackle Rat Ogre. God damn this sucks so bad. Has most TD in our whole league... (if u dont count a ag 6 mv 11 WE Catcher!) But I never tested my luck with a wild animals.

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:28 am

ianwilliams wrote: I stick my rookie Ogre/Troll/Tree in front your rookie Rat Ogre you will turn over more than 1/3 of the time.

Sure, when I'm kicking off. But when you're kicking to me, I get to choose the matchups at the beginning, and your Ogre/Troll/Tree will never get to see the Ratogre up close and personal.

When I have to kick, I either leave the RO on the bench, or put him back in a linebacker, sweeper position to crunch anyone who makes it past the front 10 - this also keeps him away from having to face the opposition's biggest guys.

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:15 pm

Doesn't matter if you hold him as a fullback or whatever, most teams that will take a big guy will be running rather than throwing, so no catchers to take out. If orcs roll down the field the ogre will come with them. Are you not going to use your rat-ogre? If you do then he has to come close to the cage (or whatever scrum formation) and probably within range of the ogre. Putting an ogre on a rat-ogre's a risk well worth taking in my opinion, especially if you can engineer a potential pushback/frenzy 1/2 dice block. Having a 1/3 chance of an extra turn is too good to turn down, and horribly demoralising for the skaven coach.
I took an ogre in the last tourney, partly to have the goblin throwing outlet, but partly to man mark any wild animals, and he managed a turn-over against a minotaur first game. Which but for a failed gfi would have won me the game.

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:54 pm

Slinky78 wrote:Doesn't matter if you hold him as a fullback or whatever, most teams that will take a big guy will be running rather than throwing, so no catchers to take out. If orcs roll down the field the ogre will come with them. Are you not going to use your rat-ogre?

Of course I would, but it would be stupid to run him up 1-on-1 against the ogre, now wouldn't it?

If I put a cheap and replaceable linerat on the ogre to keep him occupied and then hit the opposite side of the cage with the RO, I get to cause chaos in your formation, and probably give myself a shot at the ball within a turn or two. I'm willing to feed linerats to your ogre to get my hands on the ball because the rats are the best team in bloodbowl at converting turnovers into touchdowns. There's a reason the linerats are so cheap.

Is it foolproof? Of course not. A fool will let you blitz the ratogre with the ogre without having to dodge with the ogre.

Don't take this to mean that using a ratogre is without risk or that I think the WA rule is a good one. I'm not saying either of those things. I'm just saying that the skaven are vastly improved with muscle and it *can* be worth the gamble of using the RO to get it.

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:45 pm

I'd agree it's probably a worthwhile risk, as once you get block, the risk of a turnover is greatly reduced. First games of tourneys and leagues before block, it's a substantial risk though.

If you have to feed linerats to my ogre to protect your RO, then that's another disadvantage, and if the situation is right, it can be well worth blitzing the rat to then move the ogre into contact with the rat ogre. With St4 black orcs, it's not so hard to get at least an 1 die roll from the RO.

Arayel · Post by **Arayel** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:07 am

In response to the many posts on the Rat Ogre or not line and starting Skaven teams I thought I would add my 2 cents. My starting team was as follows.

1 Thrower
2 Stormvermin
3 Gutter Runners
4 Line Rats
1 Rat ogre
1 RR
9 FF

Now Im probably the only person here who doesnt value RR's but I never seem to need them. IMHO most really bad turnovers can be avoided or at least minimised and contingency plans created. I have played 2 games, scored 5 touchdowns, conceded 1 and only had 1 casualty. My Rat Ogre is yet to cause a turnover and I have taken home 190,000 in winnings!
My TR is already at 123!

IMO Rat Ogres are a better threat than anything else. I rarely use mine on the line of scrimmage and as such he is very well behaved. They are also excellent blitzers!

For those skaven players who get hurt a lot, stop trying to mix it up. Use your line rats to get in the way and make your opponent chase you. if your front line gets knocked down leave them down, after all he can only foul 1 a turn and with IGMEOY hes as likely to go off as you!

Feel free to contradict everyhitng I've said, just my opinion and my style of play wont work for everyone!

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:49 pm

Wish I didn't have to rely on RR's, but with most 2d blocks coming up double skulls, or pickups with GR coming up 1's, I need them

Slim Shady · Post by **Slim Shady** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:02 pm

Flyin' Fling wrote:but then I thought, hell, I'm playing skaven to mess around with GR, so I started again with

4 GR
7 Linos
4 RR
9 FF

and despite some early deaths among the linefodder, that is working out pretty good too.

[Newbie Alert]
That looks pretty cool to me, but I'll be starting with the team box so I'll only have 3 GR's. I'd like to put them all in though, the rest is 6 Line, 2 SV's, and a Thrower. Three RR's seems like enough for me, so maybe:

3 GR's
5 LR's
2 SV's
1 Thrower
3 RR
8 FF

Is that right on cost? I don't have the list in front of me at the moment.
I don't know - whatcha' think?
[/Newbie Alert]

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