FF rules revised! (especially the annoying 1/6 rule)

[Mestari]

Grumble: I'm not sure what task does the 1/6 FF rule accomplish that the new suggestion wouldn't handle, in addition to being less annoying.

[DoubleSkulls]

How else are you going to get a -4 modifier?

Fan Factor of 40 & lose without scoring any TDs or cas. Not very likely.

Getting more than +4 isn't that hard - win, 4 TD, 2 Cas.

[Grumbledook]

This change will mean higher fan factors all round and the result of that will put more money into the game which goes against trying to curb teams growth

[Joaquim]

Personally I don't have any problem with the 1/6s rule.... but for some bad luck players this can be really hard, specially in the begging of the leagues.... and I'm not talking only of FFs... the money roll can be hard too..
You see, I know a player who plays good during the match... however only in the 4th game he rolled something else than 1 in the money roll!!...

So, for me the problem is that after the game you have two rolls wich can really set your way in the league.... and I don't think there is any skill about rolling dice!!! even if my 8 years old son really tries hard!!

I didn't house rule these rolls yet... but I think anything wich makes these rolls less random should be good...

[Bifi]

If you want to give bonusses for Cas, you might as well give negative modifiers for Cas against. How else are you going to get a -4 modifier?

For having FF 30+. Hypothetically the situation could occur.

[Bifi]

This change will mean higher fan factors all round and the result of that will put more money into the game which goes against trying to curb teams growth

Actually by incorporating Draco's proposal (a -2 for loss, -1 for a tie), or by including a negative modifier for casualties against (goodbye elves or stunties) this could be alleviated.

[Mestari]

Personally, I don't think that the proposed system will increase the FF's of teams too much, although admittedly it probably will increase the plateau level slightly. I see no serious problem with that.

[narkotic]

Just to report my latest experience with the 1/6 FF roll system:
I won yesterday our league semi-finals 3:0, rolled a 1 of course. My fans don't seem to enjoy me having success...

[Old Man Draco]

This change will mean higher fan factors all round and the result of that will put more money into the game which goes against trying to curb teams growth

Actually by incorporating Draco's proposal (a -2 for loss, -1 for a tie), or by including a negative modifier for casualties against (goodbye elves or stunties) this could be alleviated.

That was Pardus's proposal but thanks anyway!

[Chris]

To inject a bit of realism? into this.
The fan factor represent how well you do, but also what your team is doing. Rather than have complex rules on tv appearances, tabloid space, who is marrying who, what the youth squad is doing, how telegenic your scarred captain is etc you get a dice roll.

Arsenal may win all the time, but if they get a rep as a boring defensive team, the growth in fans won't be startling, and the fan base may even shrink as they move to more exciting teams like Charlton.

The fickleness of fans is one of the fun things in the game, and if you lose out badly, tough luck, randomnes is forever the enemy of the blood bowl coach. Git your teeth, moan, and soldier on!

[Bifi]

Git your teeth, moan, and soldier on!

Thanks, pal.

You're right in every word. But nevertheless, there are a few people that simply aren't particularly lucky. My unluckiness for example almost became legendary. And such people would like the rules to protect them, because if they won't, the game isn't fun for them. Do you get it? I would like to be able to play Blood Bowl and have fun! And if I don't have fun, I become frustrated over time and then lose interest. And this is a common reaction, as far as I know.

The simple rules of statistics and probability simply don't get applied in a precise way, and that because of two factors. The first is, that the probability curve shows only under a large number of tries. My estimate is about one hundred rolls per each result possible. (That would mean that you would get a statistically even distribution of a d6 roll after about 600 recorded tries.) Does BB provide such large numbers? Maybe after 50+ games... (I know that it is possible to roll 50 times per match, read on.)

The second one, which completely denies the possibility of using any large number probability ("it will even out... now a 1, next time a 6!" haha), is that NOT ALL ROLLS ARE EQUALLY RELEVANT. The dodge roll, where you're rolling on the last guy in your turn dodging from a goblin is not of the same relevance as a FF roll, albeit it uses the same base mechanic (meaning a d6)! And how many times (counted together) do you roll on a FF (meaning how many games you play)? 10? 30? This number means it is hardly possible to get statistically even results, not to mention that 3 or 5 1s rolled could ruin your team (not only cash-wise, but also via the on-pitch events).

[Bifi]

After some thinking, assessment of the proposals and playing with numbers I came up with this, taking into consideration a) simplicity, b) no-big-changes rule, c) don't-alter-the-game-balance rule, and d) the fact that if you play well, the probability of FF decrease should decrease (and vice versa). The "TDs received" should effectively assess the team's performance on the negative side, and could result in -2 or even less (as it stood in one of the proposals). It also reflects the fact that BB is played on goals. The bashy teams that tend to receive lots of TDs will either try to adopt a strategy against it, or try to inflict more casualties.

3. Fan Factor
A team's fan factor may not be voluntarily changed once the league has started. Instead, each coach must roll after every match to see if their fan factor changes. Roll two dice, add them together, add or substract any modifiers, and look up the result on the Fan Factor Table. Any change to the team's fan factor must be recorded on the team roster. There is no limit to how high a team's fan factor may go, but it can never be reduced to less than 1. An unmodified roll of 2 always counts as a 2-5 result, and and unmodified roll of 12 always counts as a 9-12 result.

Fan Factor Table
2d6 Result
___________________________________
2-5 Fan Factor goes down 1 point.
6-8 Fan Factor stays the same.
9-12 Fan Factor goes up 1 point.

Won the Match +1
Lost the Match -1
For each 2 TDs the team scored +1
For each 2 TDs the team received -1
For each 2 casualties the team inflicted +1
Tournament Semi-final +1
Tournament Final +2
For every 10 Fan Factors -1

Note: If the total modifier to the roll is lower than -4, treat it as a -4. If the total modifier to the roll is higher than +4, treat it as a +4.

By the way, do you have any idea what modifiers could reflect that the team has played badly? (Something aside of casualties suffered, which I didn't consider particularly justified.) I think that "TDs received" could make it, but maybe you have also some other idea.

[BloodNole]

I like the idea Fifi. Math makes my skull hurt, but I see the wisdom in your approach.

[Bifi]

yes, the only problem being my inability to start with this earlier to get some reactions on the forum before end of August (BBRC).