Do I have to use dodge?

Lofwyr · Post by **Lofwyr** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:57 pm

As far as I remeber you don´t have to use skills if you don´t want to or it´s stated otherwise.
But today we had an interesting situation.
A trollslayer blocked a gutter runner two squares away from the fans.
At his first block he had 2 times "pow if no dodge".
If the dodge from the gr works, he will be pushed to the sideline and with the second block (frenzy) into the fans.
Now we had the discussion if the skaven player can refuse to use his dodge skill, so that he goes down but won´t be pushed outside.
Is this OK or applies the rule that you don´t have to use your skills only for active skills?

Tobias

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:00 pm

Unless it explicitly states in the skill decription you must use (ie Frenzy), then no, you don't have to use any skill if you don't want to.

slup · Post by **slup** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:01 pm

It is OK
The rule applies to all skills.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:22 pm

Yup, although Dodge and Stand Firm are the two most common instances where you wouldn't want to use a skill.

I really wish this would get programmed into Javabowl.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:13 pm

if this is so, then the wording in the blocking table should be revised. On page 10 of the LRB it says: "...If he does have the Dodge skill then he is only pushed back." (italics inserted)

So it's not about using the Dodge skill, just about having it.

Even though I can follow the argumentation, I would say the player would still be pushed back.

Lofwyr · Post by **Lofwyr** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:49 pm

@orin: exactly that wording was the one that the dwaf player used and the reason why i posted the problem here.
The two rules semm to contradict each other.
Is there any official ruling?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:36 pm

The official ruling came down from the BBRC in that you never have to use a skill/trait, but I can't find it atm.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:14 pm

Darkson wrote:The official ruling came down from the BBRC in that you never have to use a skill/trait, but I can't find it atm.

Okay, but if they do not give specific examples, the discussion still stands, since you do not use a skill in this situation, you just have one.

I'd love to see that ruling if you can find it, because I'm curious now what the official answer is.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:10 am

LRB pp15

Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it

You can choose not to use dodge.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:56 am

but you cannot choose not to have a skill once you have it...

This discussion is going nowhere. Let's just say this is an ambiguity that needs to be edited out in the newest version of the LRB and let the league commissionar make a ruling when a league is set up...

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:14 am

Orin wrote:but you cannot choose not to have a skill once you have it...

You can choose to not use pro, diving tackle, and pass block. Being able to not use a skill is layed out in the LRB were they talk about the differences between skills and traits.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:52 am

LRB pp34 - dodge skill description

In addition, the Dodge skill affects the results rolled on the Block dice, as explained in the Blocking rules in the Blood Bowl book.

I think you may be right that use of the dodge skill is irrelevant for blocking.

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:26 am

I also had the same situation where a wardancer was going to be pushed out of bounds. This was in the Madhobbit Massacre. I choose not to use dodge and this was allowed by the judge (Madhobbit). But given this discussion I am not sure if I was correct.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:04 pm

The Judge's decision validated your action. If I had been that judge, I wouldn't have allowed it. It's not that I think you are wrong, it's just that I base myself on the exact words of the different sections of the LRB.

To end all further discussion, I propose a new text to be added to the dodge skill.

"In addition, a coach may choose to let a player with the dodge skill be pushed back but remain standing when the appropriate block result (pow unless dodge) comes up."

It may not be the best formulation, but the focus here is the may choose. This would make this particular use of the dodge skill active instead of the passive it is now.

Now that I think about this, this would give difficulties when a player is blocked multiple times in a turn. But since a player can also use block to save himself even if he is blocked more than once a turn, this could be sorted out as well. Being blocked isn't an action, is it?

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:50 pm

Seems that according to the rules it is not allowed. But I think it should be. Also, I think that the wording from the section of blocking is older than the passage on optional use of a skill. The former might be up for a revision?