Passive TD while being pushed back by a frenzy player?

[Grumbledook]

According the rules i would say it wasn't a TD but i think it should be :p

I think any time a player is standing in the end zone with a ball it should be a td, solves nearly all the problems (unless your pedantic about stripball)

[narkotic]

...unless your pedantic about stripball

I am, it's THE skill to get the ball lose and in the emergency situation where you can prevent a TD in a last effort it shouldn't work...?

[Grumbledook]

yes it should work which is why i put that in as an exception

[narkotic]

[cleminho]

I think we have to understand the rule it should be logical, not stick to the words, before it is modified in the next LRB.

For me, it seems logical and obvious that a player holding the ball in the opponent's end zone scores a TD because he is standing with the ball (which means that strip ball and knocked over do not mean TD, of course) at a moment.
If you try to compare to a real game and stick to logic, the moment the player is in the EZ, he scores, no matter if the player has frenzy.

Anyway, I think there is no point to discuss it because the moment the player is pushed in the EZ, it is a TD and the action ends. So the player may not use his frenzy skill to block a second time since the drive has ended. This answers you when you say that a TD is only scored when the action has ended: pushing an opponent standing and holding the ball in your EZ is a TD and a TD means the end of an action.
Unless there is something I did not get....

[MickeX]

Wasn't there a consensus that a ballcarrier cannot run through the End Zone and then out again, when trying to stall a TD?

If so, it should be impossible to make the same move using frenzy - the TD should end the action. And if that is true, the same should go for getting frenzied through the End Zone by an opposing player.

Another way of showing that it would get really strange not to make a TD end the opposing players frenzy action is to make an example with two pushback results against a sidestep player. First he sidesteps into the End Zone, then he sidesteps out. If that is not a TD, things get very strange...

[Grumbledook]

exactly this is one big mess and there isn't an acutal answer atm

[cleminho]

exactly this is one big mess and there isn't an acutal answer atm

There is sthg I miss here. Where is the big mess?

If an action is ended by a TD and if a player is pushed back into his opponent's EZ, standing and holding the ball, with or without frenzy, the TD must be granted (thus do not push an opponent into your EZ if you can and if he has side step, you need to pray to knock him over or, if possible, put players in the squares available in the EZ not to have to push him there)

[Darkson]

Well, for a start, it says a TD is scired "if the player is standing in the EZ at the end of his action". So if I push a player into the EZ, is it a TD or not? Cos he wasn't taking an action. Also, is the 2nd block of frenzy a seperae action, or a continuation of the 1st one?

A couple of poorly hosen words in the text means a lot of prblems, especially if you have rules lawyers in your group.

[GalakStarscraper]

It is on the hotlist

But due to another reason:

"A team scores a touchdown when one of their players ends an action standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the football.
to
"A team scores a touchdown when one of their players is standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the football at the end of any player's action."
Currently under the rules, a TTM pass of a player that has already moved into the endzone and chain pushing a player that has already moved into the endzones are not TDs, and they should be.

Uhhhh Narkotic ... you didn't read far enough down the Hot List ... under the Clarification section:

If a player with Strip Ball pushes an opposing player with the ball into his endzone during your turn. Is it a touchdown. The wording on page 16 indicates yes as it doesn't include the "A team scores a touchdown when one of their players ends an action standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the football." The rules on page 16 under the topic, SCORING IN THE OPPONENT’S TURN, say its a TD as soon as the player is pushed which would seem to preclude the Strip Ball effect. If Strip Ball should prevent such a TD, change the wording to this:
"For example, a player holding the ball could be pushed into the End Zone by a block. If this happens and the player is still in possession of the ball when that single block or event resolves then the team scores a touchdown"
The single block wording is there, as a question was raised if you have Frenzy and push the player into the end zone is it a TD or do I get to hit him again first ... the single block wording fixes that question as well.

So its already on there my friend.

Galak

[cleminho]

If a player with Strip Ball pushes an opposing player with the ball into his endzone during your turn. Is it a touchdown. The wording on page 16 indicates yes as it doesn't include the "A team scores a touchdown when one of their players ends an action standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the football." The rules on page 16 under the topic, SCORING IN THE OPPONENT’S TURN, say its a TD as soon as the player is pushed which would seem to preclude the Strip Ball effect. If Strip Ball should prevent such a TD, change the wording to this:
"For example, a player holding the ball could be pushed into the End Zone by a block. If this happens and the player is still in possession of the ball when that single block or event resolves then the team scores a touchdown"
The single block wording is there, as a question was raised if you have Frenzy and push the player into the end zone is it a TD or do I get to hit him again first ... the single block wording fixes that question as well.

So its already on there my friend.

Galak[/quote]

I am sorry I am not English I did not understand all up there. So is (or will be) there or not a TD with strip ball? with frenzy?

[narkotic]

sorry Galak, I should have scanned your text better

@cleminho: the text actually resolves nothing, it only addresses the problem. It's the 2003 hotlist for the BB Rules Committee. They will look through in Oct/Nov and hopefully give an official answer/clarification.

[GalakStarscraper]

sorry Galak, I should have scanned your text better

@cleminho: the text actually resolves nothing, it only addresses the problem. It's the 2003 hotlist for the BB Rules Committee. They will look through in Oct/Nov and hopefully give an official answer/clarification.

No problem ... the Hot List got decent sized this year.

Cleminho ... Narkotic has it right. The bottom line is that page 16 is unclear about pushes with Strip Ball and/or Frenzy that place an opponent with the ball in his End Zone.

Any answer we give you is a guess. Everything on the Hot List under the clarification section means that the rulebook just doesn't have the answer there and one is being requested of the BBRC.

Galak

[Dave]

I hope they make it something like; a TD occures immedeately as soon as a player with the ball is standing in the endzone.

[GalakStarscraper]

I hope they make it something like; a TD occures immedeately as soon as a player with the ball is standing in the endzone.

Now see ... I'd rather Strip Ball be able to kick in before the TD occurs. This is at least what the proposed re-wording suggested on the Hot List does.

Galak