Team Rating Gap

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:07 pm

Nightdragon, is that explanation on this site somewhere?? Could you tell me where, so I can at least explain things to other people in my league?

Thanks

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:56 pm

First idea: Benching
The team with the higher TR must bench players in order to reduce the TR advantage to 50 or less. (The primadonnas can't be bothered to play against such an inferior team).
Benched players are only unavailable for that one game.
That should take care of all the games where the handicap table really isn't enough.

Secondly: Make the Handicap table more consistent.
Not more powerful - at least not the best results.
But make the weaker results better.
I mean - choosing the weather? Come on.
Let's of weak results on the table could be replaced with something better.

Cheers
Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:00 pm

Oh look,
my benching suggestion was identical to Blammahams. Cool

And I still think that the handicap table needs to be more consistent.
Martin

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:15 pm

One question is where should the balance be between teams?

At 51 difference the win % - without any handicap system is ~62% with 14% being draws (FUMBBL stats - 1700+ games using their strength rating rather than TR)

Now is that unreasonable? If it is where should the balance lie between teams? Should you always have an even chance of winning the game regardless of TR? If so, what's the point of team progression?

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:26 pm

I agree that you can't make the changes of winning the same every time. That would be boring. It would also make the games you do win against a HTR team less special.

The Handicap Table should indeed be more consistent. Choosing the weather isn't that bad, if you know your opponent plays a passing game, choose very sunny, if it's Hail Mary Passes, choose Blizzard, only make the weather fixed for that match. otherwise the first Kick-off table result will always be a weather change.

The difference in handicaps can be serious: who wants a +1 FF if you can have a grudge match as well??

Maybe benching the best players isn't all bad for the HTR team. Now he is forced to distribute his SSP more evenly, and his "primadonnas" don't risk an injury...

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:31 pm

Would that benching be in addition to the normal handicap? or just in stead of?? Does a coach have to bench his best players?? What happens if the TR drops drastically... (I have a Wardancer who is calculated as 22 TR alone (120k + 50 SSP))

Blammaham · Post by **Blammaham** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:12 pm

The way it works in the leauge I run is that first you MUST remove your rerolls to represent your team playing poorly againsed inferior competion eg: taking them lightly, then your best player as of spps and so on untill your team rating is within 51 points of your opponent.

If you don't like this suggestion thats fine however I still feel it is important to have some extra ballencing factors in a long term leauge setting. I've heard quite a few great ideas here, so I think the right answer for anybodys league is somwhere on this board.S.

( we use this in addition to the hadicap table at the original team rating diference.)

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:04 pm

Well, you've playtested it, but it sounds pretty harsh to me to have to give up all your re-rolls if the difference is high enough. Doesn't that make the game too much a game of chance?

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:10 pm

Don't like the benching idea at all. Isn't the 3rd ed rules in DZ? Yep just checked p19 the handicap table. Let me know if you want me to right it out, but it does go along side the card system used at the time.

Blammaham · Post by **Blammaham** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:26 pm

OK a little background on the leauge that spawned the ballancing house rules that I laid out, first it is a long term leauge that has developed powerfull teams 350+ team ratings, mostly on the backs of crushing rookie teams in easily won games. Infact the first game I played in the leauge with a rookie skaven team was aginsed a 300+ dwarf team.
Suprise Suprise I lost, in overtime but I was only able to field three players through the second 1/2. Shortly therafter I became commish and asked the coaches in the leauge to present some ideas for ballancing the leauge. One of the coaches presented this idea.
The fact of the matter is that is harsh, very harsh. However I feel that asking rookie teams to play againsed well developed teams is even more harsh. Personaly I dont think that a pro team (250+) would/should compete againsed a rookie team, it seem like the green bay packers vs. local high school team. And if they did it would be unlikly that their star players would play.
I as head of this leauge feel that is in all of our coaches best interests to play close competive games. This also has the added benifit of being able to incorperate new teams and coaches in our open format.
OK this post is probly too long already so enough ranting S. out.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:05 am

My idea for benching is that the coach chooses which players to remove for the match. Not necessarily the best ones.
Any players removed do not count towards TR, but the remaining difference is handled by the handicap table as normal.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:38 pm

I like the tiered handcp table idea that Milo or Chet suggested, then Galak refined.
Though TBH, I think a team going against a team with 50+ TRR shouldn't be expecting to win, so it sounds a little ik whinging to me.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:35 pm

Darkson wrote: Though TBH, I think a team going against a team with 50+ TRR shouldn't be expecting to win, so it sounds a little ik whinging to me.

It is. The next time people start complaining to me about this I'll just say: "Stop being such a cry-baby and come back when you have a real problem!"

COme on, no team in our league has even gone over the 200 TR yet.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:22 am

I can't even imagine a 300+ TR Dwarf team... but okay, I'll try:

8 rerolls: 32
1 Apothecary: 5
10 Cheerleaders: 10
10 Assistant Coaches: 10
FF 20(?): 20

1 Ogre: 12
2 Blitzers: 16
2 Troll Slayers: 18
2 Runners: 16
9 Longbeards: 63

This leaves 100 TR worth of SSP, so 500 SSP, which is approximately 31 SSP per player. Since the longbeards will have the least SSP, they''ll all probably just have 2 skills (Guard and Stand Firm), and this leaves all the other players enough to have 4 skills each.....

*gulp*

Scipio_Publius · Post by **Scipio_Publius** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:53 pm

Well, I suppose I can offer a little advice in this aspect. In our league we had the same problem but only a few teams had a huge gap between them and the rest. I just "suggested" that they play a second team. The league rules say you can play as many teams as you want but only one can go to playoffs.

So myself and a few others play a second "trainer" team. People can play the higher team if they want but this way at least people are not quietting because they have to play one of us. Two seasons later the list has gotten bigger of people with multi-teams and the coach list has also gotten bigger.