When to foul

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:08 pm

A contraversial issue I know, but I just wondered what you guys thought about fouling. I've been thinking about this a bit recently and have a few general points for you to consider.

Say on your first turn of the game you knock someone down, but its only a lineman or someone else equally worthless. In reality you've only got one or two fouls per half before the odds suggest you're going off the pitch, so would you use the foul on the lineman or wait until you've knocked someone important down?

The thinking behind losing the lineman being that you can take someone out for more turns in total and leave your opponent a man down for the whole game - which makes things difficult for them. Of course, the reply would be that the turn or two they gain with that player still on the pitch is negligable compared to the loss they will suffer when you use your foul on someone really important.

Basically that point boils down to whether you foul early, or foul important. In some games it might not be an issue, but I want to see which people decide when it actually does come up.

My second point is related to that really. Is it worth fouling after your first, despite the 4+ roll for being sent off? In other words is it worth risking more than one foul per half, or should you just leave it at that.

Obviously I know this depends on the position your in, but even then that just raises more questions. If you are losing and several men down on your opponent is it more important to use your remaining players to cover the opposition as best you can, or to try and foul and make it harder for them in the long run?

And, of course, if you're winning is it worth taking the risk of fouling just to try and consolidate your position?

Phew... too many questions! Anyway, your thoughts...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:45 pm

These questions very much depend on what situation you are in:

- Depth of your bench: will i be able to replace a sent off player or is my squad limited?

- # of dirty players. I usually reserve a lonely dirty player for valuable opponents, that means i would not foul a lousy lineman on the first turn. However, if i have several, i might reconsider.

- What type of player to foul: How important is the Lineman for the opponents play. I guess few people would foul a skill-less Zombie, however a guard Longbeard or a lineelf with the kick skill is a different story. Not speaking of no brainers like Big Guys, Piling-On Mummies or Wardancers.

-Price difference: (applies to rookie teams mostly) if i use my 40k Hobgoblin or 30k Zombie to foul your 70k lineman it can't be a bad idea right ... ? However, Elf teams usually have a DP lineelf only as a countermeasure.

- Is the opponent likely to counter-foul? Is the eye already on him. Sometimes it might be a good idea to keep the eye where it is and stop fouling.

Usually my theory is that as long as my (cheap) dirty player is on the pitch, something is wrong. I'm a bit more careful about fouling in the first half because you don't know howe the game goes (low reserves) and you get the ref counter reset at halftime and there's still a chance to get the ref, but if i manage to get the upper hand or it's halftime, the dirty player will foul until he's sent off.

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:13 pm

Fair enough, but if you wait until the second half do you not slightly waste the benefits of fouling as weighed against the possible disadvantages. in other words if you wait to start fouling then the players you hopefully take out have more effect on the game in total than if you'd fouled early on. Thats just pure speculation though, as your points are all good ones. My problem is that theres a lot of things to consider either way on this question.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:41 am

Depends on what skills the lino's got. If he's got Guard or DP, he's a very viable target.

VoidSeer · Post by **VoidSeer** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:00 am

I've just got my first DP with my WE, and it really kicks ass.I tried the following tactic the last 2 games: HIT FIRST, HIT ONCE.
I was playing againts Amazons first and then chaos. Mind you, our league is young, and I am the only one to have a DP and no one has more than 11 players.

With a DP and 1 assist the odds to get a KO are around 60% against AV 7 and a bit more than 50% against AV 8.
If your not lucky enough to get a KO (or better), the odds to get a stun are 92% and 83%. Since I try to score in 2 turns, this means the guy is out of the drive anyway. And its only 14% chances to get banned from the game.

So on both games I received first, knocked a player down and fouled him on turn one. In both cases the guy was out for the game (the first was BH the other got KO'ed and never went back).

I would not foul without a DP though, the odds of getting a decent result are really too low.

I have not much experience in the game, so maybe I got lucky on both games. Still playing WE when you outnumber your opponent is pretty nice

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:31 pm

Just have one DP and lure... if an annoying opponent goes down and you happen to have 3 other guys around.. FOUL!
But for a simple lino, I would bother fouling except special situations... like they got the ref and their only DP goes down.. things like this.
And yeah.. I foul even with the ref´s eye on me.. but then the victim has to be really important like a ST4-witch-bitch or something alike.
I don´t even choose their keyplayers always... just the players that interfere my play too much. Everything else can be handled by my team.

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:54 pm

You see my problem...

In the last two posts we've had some really good logic for two conflicting tactics. Voidseer says foul early and outnumber people, Circular Logic says foul the important people to get the tactical edge. Any other thoughts people?

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:06 pm

So the answer is: both strategies are valid. It is for you to decide which applies best to the match being played or the situation on the board.

harald · Post by **harald** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:32 pm

It always good to win the numbers game. Foul as much as you can and you can afford. Get the eye on you straight away and let the other coach chicken out and not fouling back.

If you face a low AV, fast team and you are a slow hulking team you need to get those skinny pests out of there. Especially the blodge ones. Foul early and often! Most often skinny blodge fast 'uns cost far more than a fouling lineplayer thus the ejection is sometimes worth it.

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:10 pm

Whilst I appreciate the comment Yavatol I feel that this dilemma applies to pretty much all matches - I'm not asking generally when fouling is a good idea, but specifically whether the benefits of fouling early outweigh the benefits of fouling someone important to the opponent. To my mind that kind of problem will always apply and the only thing I can think of that would cause a subjective issue to creep in would be if the opponent had one outstanding player.

VoidSeer · Post by **VoidSeer** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:45 pm

Of course it depends on the game. It is always a question of risk and gain. You may very well risk a zombie where you'll never foul with a 70k gold line elf.

Depends if you got replacement in case your player gets banned, how late it is in the half, will there be a kick off soon etc.

Next game I play a norse team with a blitzer having the piling on/jump up combo (old rules) I will not foul on the first turn, but rather hunt that guy down and hopefully remove him from the pitch.

It was first, though, to draw first blood with WE on the last two games. You should have seen the face of the undead coach

.
The best point was that he never attempted 1d blocks within the range of my DP for the rest of the game (and with a WE lino, its a pretty big range).

Post by **Dave** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:30 pm

I hardly ever foul at all.

Only wardancers, downed mummies and / or players that have a price on their head

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:39 pm

foul to get a player off in first half...get player advantage. 2nd half target the pesky player.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:36 pm

If you have a dirty player or 4
then every turn

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:22 pm

Zy-Nox wrote:If you have a dirty player or 4
then every turn

Is this really worth it? You may remove a player each turn for the majority of the match, but you run the risk of losing a great deal of players yourself. Also in the process of getting off the foul and the obligatory assist to make it worthwhile you've probably neglected some otehr aspect of the turn - like the ball... or the opposing team possibly.

I'm seriously asking though, do people think fouling lots pays off - never mind the moral implications of making the game boring, does it actually work as a tactic.