New Big Guy rules to eliminate Negatraits, post here.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:13 am

Post any ideas to eliminate Negas and balance BGs here. If you just want to post that Negas are fine use another thread please. I'd just like to brainstorm here to see if we can come up with a better method.

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:55 am

Not really a better method.. I still have negatraits, but they don´t make Big Guys unreliable.. just... a little less useful.

So the suggestions...
WA:
Player has to move first. If he is in a TZ of an opposing player, he has to block him (though he may then move on as part of a blitz-move). If he isn´t in another player tacklezone, he has to declare a move-action and move so that he end up in a TZ of an opposing player of the coaches choice. If no opponent is in reach, then he has to move straight towards the nearest opponent.
Bonehead:
This player is quite slow and unable to react with the same speed as the rest of the team. To represent this, this player is always moved last on the moving teams turn. After a player with bonehead has moved the turn ends. If there are 2 or more players with bonehead, you have to move them one after the other in an order you choose, but your turn still ends after the action of the last bonehead-player.

Really Stupid:
A player with this trait suffers the same effects as a bonehead-player. In addition, if there is more than one possible target of a block (and no friendly player adjecent?), the opposing coach may choose, which one is blocked.

Take Root (or Woodhead):
A Treeman is a creature which is not in a hurry at all. Following the lightning-fast plays of BloodBowl such as a dwarven 8-turn-grind is quite hard for them. To represent this, a coach has to announce the action, the treeman will next turn, at the end of his previous turn (so you declare the action of turn3 at the end of turn2). The only exception from this rule is at kickoff as during the breack between the drives his teammates give him an situation-update ("We have already scored.")

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:32 pm

Not doing away with negas, but an alternative:

Change Big Guy itself to:

Big Guy (Racial Characteristic)
The player is a Big Guy! All of the rules that apply to Big Guys apply to this player.

Before taking an action with a Big Guy, you must first roll a D6. On a 4+ the player remembers what he is supposed to be doing, and you may carry on with his action as normal. However, on a 1-3 the player reverts to his instinctive behaviour, as detailed in his particular negative trait.

If you wish, one of you players can try to encourage a Big Guy to do what he is supposed to. The player must declare a special "Order Big Guy" action. The player may move his normal MV allowance, but may not do anything else for the turn. If he ends his move in an adjacent square to a Big Guy, the Big Guy will pass his roll on a 2+ rather than a 4+.

Change NegaTraits to:

Bonehead (Racial Characteristic)
If the player fails his Big Guy roll, then he may only take a Move action for the turn.

Really Stupid (Racial Characteristic)
If the player fails his Big Guy roll, then he cannot do anything for the turn. He loses his tackle zone until he manages to pass his Big Guy roll at the start of another action.

Take Root (Racial Characteristic)
If the player fails his Big Guy roll, then he may only take a Block action for the turn.

Wild Animal (Racial Characteristic)
If the player fails his Big Guy roll, then he may only take a Foul (or Blitz?) action for the turn.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:34 pm

Or if you want to get rid of negas altogether, it would probably be best just to cost BGs realistically;150-170k for an Ogre etc..

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:38 pm

In my league we don't use negative skills and big guys are allowed to use team rerolls.
We penalize them by not giving them standard access to general skills.
Martin

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:32 pm

plasmoid wrote:In my league we don't use negative skills and big guys are allowed to use team rerolls.
We penalize them by not giving them standard access to general skills.
Martin

I've thought about this before but do you not run out of ST skills?

One of my thoughts was a cross between this and another suggestion made above:

1) Cost them a bit more realistically
2) Do not allow the use of Re-Rolls
3) Only allow ST Skill access
4) Remove MB skill

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:53 pm

Hey Nazgit, I really like your idea. I'd like to see that playtested. Just one thing I'd like to suggest.

Nazgit wrote:Wild Animal (Racial Characteristic)
If the player fails his Big Guy roll, then he may only take a Foul (or Blitz?) action for the turn.

I would make it a blitz instead of a foul. Of course, as this role doesn't have to be made first, you could always take your blitz before you make the WA action... I think this one needs to be a little more negative, it just doesn't seem to work with the rest.

Chris

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:22 pm

Yeah, that is the one I am least happy with...

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:39 pm

IMO, dropping general access is a given (the fact that there aren't enough ST skills is a non-issue). However, just dropping general access together with negatraits means they'll have no drawbacks in tournaments.

So, they might need more reductions, like giving all of them AG 1, or one or more of Munkey's suggestions.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:54 pm

There's no need to take away General access altogether - just make Block a trait for big guys.

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:07 pm

Nazgit wrote:There's no need to take away General access altogether - just make Block a trait for big guys.

I can go for that too. But I like the symmetry of neither big guys nor stunty players having access to general skills.

Of course, that symmetry can be had if stunty players also have access to general skills, and block is a trait for them.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:53 pm

In 3rd ed we only allowed Str skills, doubles allowed you to drop your Nega, take any skill, or +1 Str.

If they add a Str skill as has been mentioned it will ease things. I really see nothing wrong with removing access to General skill, upping the price, removing MB, No RRs, or any combination of the above.

If the new handicaps work out, the Cost will be a bigger factor.

Munkey wrote:
I've thought about this before but do you not run out of ST skills?

One of my thoughts was a cross between this and another suggestion made above:

1) Cost them a bit more realistically
2) Do not allow the use of Re-Rolls
3) Only allow ST Skill access
4) Remove MB skill

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:02 pm

I see no problem with it. In tourneys it means they will NEVER get block, every tourney I've been to has only allowed a regular skill advance.

David Bergkvist wrote:IMO, dropping general access is a given (the fact that there aren't enough ST skills is a non-issue). However, just dropping general access together with negatraits means they'll have no drawbacks in tournaments.

Without Negas they may need a price adjust to be in line with the other players too.

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:40 pm

Remove Bone Head, Take Root, Really Stupid and Wild Animal. Double the cost of them (ie 200k for a Troll, 240k for an Ogre) on normal teams. 'Regular' price on Stunty/Big Guy teams.

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:18 am

Sixpack595 wrote:I see no problem with it. In tourneys it means they will NEVER get block, every tourney I've been to has only allowed a regular skill advance.

I should have written "TR100 games" instead of "tournaments". In the team's first match, not having access to general skills is not a drawback, since no player has any advances. It's only when the big guy takes gets his first skill that there is a drawback. Before then, they'll just be better if you remove their negatraits without introducing some other disadvantage (like adjusting their cost like you suggested), was my point.