Change to figuring TR

[Shadow Monkey]

A lot of people seem to think that the number of SPP's a player has does not accurately reflect the true strength of a player. A more accurate reflection would be to take the actual adnvancements (skills, traits, attribute boosts, etc.) should be taken into account.

How about instead of counting every 5 SPP's a team has, use the point system for creating players, and simply increase the cost of the player.

Example 1: The block skill is a 3 point skill according to the formula for creating a player. So, if a player takes the block skill, increase his cost by 30k. Then just count his cost as a player instead of his number of SPP's.

Example 2: According to the formula, if a player's strength is increased above 3, it's a base cost of 3 points plus an additional 3 points for each point above 3. So, a human lineman raises his strength to 4, so his cost is increased by 60k (3 points for going above 3 + another 3 points for going one point above 3 = 6 X 10k = 60k).

Granted, it's a little more complicated, but it is a better reflection of a team's actual strength. You could have 16 players on your team with only 5 SPP's which would increase your TR by 16 points even though not a single player on your team has actually improved. On the other side of the coin, you could have 16 players on your team with strength increases above 3, and your TR would be no more than a team with 16 generic skills added on.

[sean newboy]

Granted, it's a little more complicated

Thats why it will never win popular acceptance.

[Shadow Monkey]

Yeah, but only a little. Damn, lazy gamers!

Oh, oh, oh! I just had another thought on this! Not only will this system take advacements into account, but decreases from injuries and ageing as well! So a team with a player who suffers a stat decrease, niggling injury, etc., will actually bring a team's TR down!

[Blammaham]

Hey I like this idea but I also happen to agreee that it is too complicated.
Maybe we could add another section to the LRB and have it called the expert advanced rules, I'm sure this will cause no consternation or confusion, and we can have a little add on for major rules ... or maybe not.
seriously though I do think this system would more accuatly refect a teams ability on the field. A great house rule perhaps in a leauge of experianced players.S.

[Fraggel-Chris]

Would be a great houserule. But it´s harder to be included in an automatic TR calculator with all the skills and points and stuff.
If there would be a formula for excel it wouldn´t be a problem for the bb-world and we would get a fair balanced TR rule.

[Grumbledook]

i dunno why all this talk about changing tr is happening its worked great and simply for over a decade

[juck101]

possibly stolen idea but why not divide SP's by only 2.5 instead of five.

This would mean very skilled players ie 4 skill gutter runners, amazon blitzers, wardancers etc would have a higher TR. this may balance things better overall. Sure most people would agree a two/ three skilled player much better value than a one skilled black orc with 12sp.

Would be same handicap system but would price a low team with a three skilled player much more realistic price for overall TR. Many teams carry spp with little effect but the true stars of the team do not carry correct TR till over five skills.

In my current league money is a huge factor in a teams TR but stars are virtually irrelevant in team rating. Yet we pick games mostly aording to TR....

[Gus]

well, i think an important part in BB is balancing your team etc... and managing your players, which often lead to hesitating between firing an experienced player with 2 characteristics lowered or keeping him, etc...

anyway, you say that if a team has 5 SPP on each player, their TR is high tho they have no comp. i say: too bad for the coach, he should learn how to manage his SPPs.
same for an experienced player with reduced armor for example. should i keep him because he's great, or lower my TR by drafting a newbie instead, which would be more resistant ?

i like all this struggle about managing, so i don't like your idea very much (even though it is very well thought, it's just the concept in the game i don't like )

[DesTroy]

The block skill is a 3 point skill according to the formula for creating a player.

By which formula? There are plenty floating around...

[David Bergkvist]

Two things:

1. If I roll 'new skill', and choose kick over block, then that's probably because kick is the better choice (assuming I'm not stupid), and my team is better with kick than with block. But your rule increase my TR more if I choose block.

2. People don't want TR to reflect how good a team is. They want it to be possible have a good team with a low TR. This is also known as team managing.

With regards to "but it's too complex", it can be made very simple (this solution also fixes 1):

Add a column to the skill rolling table:

Code: Select all

Roll  Value Increase  Effect
2-9   20 000          New skill
10    30 000          +1 MA
11    40 000          +1 AG
12    60 000          +1 ST

So if you roll a new skill on a lineman, his cost goes up to 70 000.

This actually makes it easier to calculate TR, as you don't need to calculate the sum of the SPPs.

[duff]

If you increas value to reflect the skills chosen, the Norse and Dwarves would be very happy with their discounted block!

[juck101]

still chewing this over but it is very undervalue in tr costing at the moment.
A one skilled amazon linegirl with 6 spp and block is SO UNDERVALUE its untrue. yet a zombie with kick and 14sp is pretty rubbish....

Dont think a price should be set for skills diffrently, but current formula bit weak. If you picked tackle for a lineman as a skill, this implies YOU choose it as best option. Therfore no reason to value one skill higher or lower than others.

But in general terms all skills are undercosted until mega 6+ skilled player. then when get a 50tr catcher with two niggles he at least is correct value for his skills.

[Munkey]

To put some numbers in a human lineman is worth 5 TR.

A human lineman with Block is worth 6 TR (assuming 6 SPPs) but according to the player costing formula he should be worth 8 TR.

If we figured SPPs into team rating at twice the value he is now worth 7 TR.

I would argue that the skilled player is quite a bit better than the unskilled one, certainly enough to warrant the extra point of TR.

When figuring the increase in TR of rookie teams most of this comes from income, but as has been pointed out the 15th rookie lineman is much less valueable than block on the 11th player, this method at least goes some way to redressing the balance.

I think valuing each individual skill is too complex, and Juck101's point is very valid that the skill you selected is the best skill in your opinion and so should be valued as such.

I do agree that wasted SPPs are tough, this is all part of managing the team.

Finally by doubling the effect of SPPs TRs will increase so this would have to be taken into account in the winnings table (unless slightly lower winnings are desired) which may be the most complex part of the excercise.

[harald]

Once upon a time I played in a league with the following TR calculation:

Skill + 1
MV +1
AG +2
ST +3

I guess one should add Trait +2 these days.

I like however the present system which bring yet even more luck and chance into the game.

[Skummy]

Are you familiar with fumbbl's seperated "team rating" and "team strength" categories? It's pretty interesting, and on topic if you are not. http://fumbbl.com/index.php?module=html ... play&pid=8