Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

[Cervidal]

I don't think there's a reason secret weapons shouldn't get SPPs. There's nothing from stopping them from getting SPPs, unless the weapon doesn't allow them to carry the ball. But there's no secret weapon that prevents a player from throwing a block, thus getting CAS SPPs, or from getting the game ending MVP.

I'm not so sure why weapons with skills are/were/might be considered so overpowering. Blodge guy with a Chainsaw? Try Tackle. Leap on a player with a Poison Dagger? He's going to get the tar walloped out of him next turn if he's going into a cage. Pass on a bomb chucking Gobbo? Not too scary after he throws that bomb.

I like most of the prices listed, but I'd like to see a secret weapon require a skill roll, maybe even a doubles. Shoot, make owning secret weapons their own skill category, WP, and let Goblins, as a position, have access to that skill category so they don't need doubles.

[darthnoir]

Are people happy with:

1) The costs of each weapon. E.g. - should the Ball & Chain be cheaper, seeing as it always kills the player who uses it, and usually causes lots of turnovers?

2) The teams that can use each weapon. E.g. - should anyone else have Chainsaw access? Is the Ball & Chain OK on a Skaven team?

3) No confiscation. Personally, I hated this rule.

4) No other costs for upkeep etc.

5) The actual game mechanics for the new weapons. Any more comments?

2) Unless the Chainsaw starting roll is a flat 4+ for everyone, chainsaws should not be in the hands of any AG4 race.

Also, since the new version of Wild Animal allows (and in fact pretty forces) the Rat Ogre to be on the LOS, the Skaven have their bruiser on the line. Because of this, I believe the Ball&Chain should be exclusive to the Goblins.

5) Not to be a kill joy, but I would prefer to just keep the traditional weapons. The only one I could see making an exception for are the Stink Bombs.

additional) I like the idea of the weapon being purchased at the time the player is hired. I also like the idea of the player always having to field the weapon. It avoids a lot of potentially cheesy/beardy tactics.

[Sixpack595]

Boomerang and Gyro are cool, but I'm for them being House rules only. 1 is just another bomb, 1 is potentially gross... am I reading it right that on a lucky roll a Dwarf can jump 6 squares then do a full move action?

[GalakStarscraper]

No ball and chain for Skaven.

Poisoned Dagger should cost 30k ... one of the few things I like that JKL changed with his experimental rules.

I think we are moving towards freebooted weapons rather than permanent weapons ... but we'll see.

Galak

[darthnoir]

I think we are moving towards freebooted weapons rather than permanent weapons ... but we'll see.

Galak

Any chance of a draft of these rules showing up "Playtest Valut" soon?

[GalakStarscraper]

Any chance of a draft of these rules showing up "Playtest Valut" soon?

BBRC update:

With Jake at the helm, the playtest vault should be on the radar again now. Jake said he hopes to have all 3 of his games with revamped and updated websites by May.

However we'll be testing some stuff in the MBBL that might be pre-thoughts to the Playtest Vault. Not all of it will go in there in the end (I could hope ... but I know better), but the MBBL's main mission will continue to be a test ground for ideas that at least 2 BBRC members are interested in seeing the results for.

So what would I expect to see from the MBBL with Stars ... we'll I'd like to sit down with Chet and JKL and try and work on something we've all 3 talked about with regards to having secret weapon players that are "freebooted" (ie sorta star players) mixed with the Goblin getting a roll for a free Goblin each game with a random weapon.

I know one of the other plans was to split the star players to have league prices (hiring) and one off prices (purchasing) ... to make it simple for this problem.

The other thing would be Zzharg getting Sure Hands for a price of 110k for example.

These are more random thoughts than anything, but its what I know has been batted around. Purchasing weapons for team players gets messy with the rules you need to cover everything for the base game.

Now don't get me wrong ... the MBBL2 uses rules just like what Nazgit has offered up, so I'm not personally opposed to these rules at all ... just know it wasn't headed there at present in our discussions.

Galak








Galak

[Redfang]

So no permanent SW players, huh

[Sixpack595]

Theres no way I would like to see Freebooted SWs. The great thing about BB is developing your players, naming them, watching them improve, then watching as your beloved Gobbo who chainsawed through 25 opponantsin 1 season gets killed by a foul on turn 16. "Oh no, my freebooted Gob just fell on his chainsaw... Oh well, 40K next game either way...yawn" isn't nearly as much fun.

[Redfang]

Theres no way I would like to see Freebooted SWs. The great thing about BB is developing your players, naming them, watching them improve, then watching as your beloved Gobbo who chainsawed through 25 opponantsin 1 season gets killed by a foul on turn 16. "Oh no, my freebooted Gob just fell on his chainsaw... Oh well, 40K next game either way...yawn" isn't nearly as much fun.

I completely agree with this. Even if developping a SW player brings in too much difficulties I'd still like to see them as permanent additions to teams for exactly the above reasons.

R

[Sixpack595]

The other thing would be Zzharg getting Sure Hands for a price of 110k for example.

The Bazooka/Blunderbus is already really freaking good, thats just gross. People talk about 'booting SWs ...presumably it would prevent them getting too good from gross skill combos... then give him Sure Hands?!?

Am I the only one who's been burned by a Bazooka before?

Well at least Hthark will have company on every CD roster I face in tourneys now.

[Munkey]

Freebooting doesn't seem too bad an option to me although i'd still like to see a few more weapons.

I would hope that this means just buying the weapon for a game though, not a player as well (except maybe for the Deathroller).

[Joemanji]

Freebooting star players has completely marginalised them, which is great. I do not want to see secret weapons treated the same way.

[Bookman]

Freebooting star players has completely marginalised them, which is great. I do not want to see secret weapons treated the same way.

I can see some real benefits to the freebooting approach, primarily that it uses an existing game mechanic for team construction -- no special rules required.

Another way to look at it is that freebooting stars is a combination of the suggestions that stars are peaked and that SW players require 'maintenance' costs. The star player approach is not so very far afield of other proposals WRT SW players.

B

[plasmoid]

I'd like freebooted secret weapons.
Kind of like cheaper stars - so more available.
Also, it prevents the balance issues that can arise with secret weapons.

IMO, the most problematic secret weapon is the bomb, because if it ends up on anyone who can throw decently, it works a lot like an extra blitz, in which case all conventional tactics go out the window.
(IMO, throwing a bomb should cost the teams blitz action).

BTW - Galak: The 2 costs for stars sounds good. Could you do the same thing with wizards?
I mean, what do you charge for the master chefs extra reroll stealing in a tournament setting without winnings (resurrection style)?

Cheers
Martin

[Blammaham]

I fall on the free booting side of things as far as SW go so far, I don't think well developed teams should have game to game access to SW from a financial stand point. I there isnt a mantainance cost Free booting is the next best thing IMO.S.