Tired of Ageing? OLBBL wants YOU!

[Chapas]

I,m ex-player of Olbbl,

i play a lot of match in Olbbl ligue 2 years ago and i can said the 3º Edition rules are now very old.

the new rules livin rule bock are better and the games are more happy.

- allies rules : all teams play similar. Not special game to diferent razes.
- No ageging: Not like a inmortal players
- Games are Fouling-games, not beatiful games. (my opinion)

Olbbl Was a great ligue 3 years ago But now with the new Rules i dont like this rules. are prehistoric.

Sorry for my bad English

[StiltMan]

Chapas... quite frankly, from your ally remarks alone I am completely convinced that you never have played in the OLBBL in your life. I defy you to come to the OLBBL and try playing dwarves like wood elves with any combination of allies available to them in the league.

Let me help you out here: it can't be done.

Maybe you like the aging rules, but you're in a vast minority, I tend to think. Yeah, there's the abstract complaint that it prevents super teams but no coach likes it when their best players keep piling on niggling injuries and -AVs like they were layers of winter clothing.

As for fouling, it may surprise you to learn that the OLBBL is actually _less_ deadly than LRB-based rules. This is because the coaches in the OLBBL will typically play "friendly foul" rules, as it's come to be called. To wit, if anything permanent happens from a foul or other injury, there's a gentleman's agreement that it'll be rerolled in exchange for the player sitting down the rest of the game just as if they'd been a casualty. Furthermore, if the coach has already used their reroll for the turn or if they have none left, they won't foul. Now, this does tend to be conducive to the generation of "super teams", but again... if you don't want to play the super teams, then don't. And it's quite different from LRB, where if something really ugly happens to one of your players from those PO/Claw/RSF monstrosities that abound in FUMBBL (which is going to be effectively similar to being gang-fouled by a dirty player in the OLBBL, with no chance of ejection and even a relatively small risk that the player gets punished by getting fouled off the field due to IGMEOY), there's no way to save the player.

In that light, I'm not sure how you'd say that OLBBL games aren't somehow "happy", when in fact the atmosphere between coaches is almost unfailingly friendly and games do not, in fact, tend to degenerate into foul-fests between bloodthirsty coaches hell-bent on mangling one another's teams.

OLBBL's atmosphere is quite friendly, coaches who get abusive tend to find themselves without people willing to play games with them very quickly, and the depth of strategic Blood Bowl knowledge in the league is literally the deepest known on the planet, simply because of the sheer amount of time that's collectively been put into the game and competition there as compared to newer online or basically any offline league.

You can knock the older rules if you like (although most people who've played both editions generally think that 4e was a step down, really), and you can knock the client (which is a potentially valid point, at least until the commish staff upgrades it), but the atmosphere of play and the quality of the gameplay is simply not matchable.[/i]

[DoubleSkulls]

Maybe you like the aging rules, but you're in a vast minority, I tend to think. Yeah, there's the abstract complaint that it prevents super teams but no coach likes it when their best players keep piling on niggling injuries and -AVs like they were layers of winter clothing.

And I was thinking FUMBBL was more popular...

[Tim]

To wit, if anything permanent happens from a foul or other injury, there's a gentleman's agreement that it'll be rerolled in exchange for the player sitting down the rest of the game just as if they'd been a casualty. Furthermore, if the coach has already used their reroll for the turn or if they have none left, they won't foul.

Another reason i was quitting the OLBBL. RR a death to something less worse is just wrong imo. But due to this, OLBBL is a great place to go for team development. If you want to build a TR500 Hallfing team, this is the right place.

Just stay clear of the Armourous Goats (or whatever their equivalent is today).

[Chapas]

he he

Chapas... quite frankly, from your ally remarks alone I am completely convinced that you never have played in the OLBBL in your life. I defy you to come to the OLBBL and try playing dwarves like wood elves with any combination of allies available to them in the league.

I wouldn't assure anything i can't prove. I give the following information to you to see you are wrong.

Please go to IRC enter in #Lockeroom and quest abaut NICK: CHAPAS to Cujo, bastard, Flix, Parroco ..........and others

They can said you that i play 2 years in OLBBL (if rememberme )

If you dont like my opinion, SORRY!!! but is that i think

And i can said the 3ed OLBBL rules are boring and i not continue playing OLBBL because i dondt like the rules.(is my opinion only)

my OLD OLBBL NICK is "Chapas"

2 of my old OLBBL teams :

http://www.geocities.com/chapas2000/moks.htm
http://www.geocities.com/chapas2000/humanos2.htm 15-3-1

An others....

[Chapas]

i not speak abut atmosphere. the atmosphere is good and similar in other ligues.


I speak abaut the RULES ONLY. OK?????

I liked the atmosphere of olbbl and other ligues

[Oni]

After playing both OLBBL and FUMBBL I fould the LRB rules to be terrible. 3rd ed is much less rigid and teams have a lot more options in how they are built. If you do not like OLBBL then just do not join. I do not like FUMBBL but I see no reason to get on a thread and talk bad about it. (And I can say several things bad about the league)

If someone is interested in 3rd edition then OLBBL plays it. If someone in interested in LRB then they have that option.

Oni

[StiltMan]

This is simply amazing.

Chapas: okay, perhaps it's simply that you haven't played enough different teams to realize that your statement about allies making teams play similar is simply farcically false. I see two relatively low TR human teams and that's it. I've played wood elves, dark elves, Chaos, orcs, dwarves, humans, and minotaurs. The strict limits on allies, both in numbers and in what positions you're allowed to take as allies, keep any of these from playing particularly like any of the others.

As for Tim... uh, I defy you to either point me at a single TR 500 halfling team that's ever existed in the OLBBL's history, or keep your ludicrous hypotheticals within the realms of something that's actually come close to happening before. As for rerolling deaths.... well, on some level this is trying to have it both ways. You can't knock OLBBL for being a fouling game and then turn around and say that it's wrong to reroll the truly nasty stuff that happens. (And even with the agreements, things do happen regardless... thus, why fling teams rarely get anywhere.)

For those OLBBL coaches who're wondering who in the blue hell this is, this is Khel, btw.

[Chapas]

is a opinion question only

I preffer Livin rule, you prefer 3edr mo more.

[Tim]

You can't knock OLBBL for being a fouling game and then turn around and say that it's wrong to reroll the truly nasty stuff that happens.

No, that attitude is exactly what i did not like. I'll foul the heck out of you with 3 dirty players, but i'll RR any deaths, because i'm a nice guy. These kind of absurd play ethics benefit the building of TR300+ Uberteams. Gaining SPP is more important than winning the game for some people.

Oh and btw, OLBBL is not the only online league i avoid for this reason.

[Xeterog]

Comes down to if you want to play a modified 3rd edition or LRB.

I was in the OLBBL from the begining..played games before the client was developed, was a commish there for a few years (heck, alot of the rules descriptions/clarifications they still use today I entered into the database). I found it a great league to be in. There were some coaches that liked to mangle teams (much like some in FUMBBL do), but most were very helpful and fun to play against. I know that we actively sought out cheaters and banned them when we found them. At least while I was there, I would not have ignored a player's complaints, and I don't think any of the other commishes would have either.

That said, I like the current LRB rules much better than 3rd (I've never been a big fan of fouling, and like what has been done to curb that overused skill--dirty player), so I play FUMBBL now exclusively. I find the chat about the same as in the OLBBL--you have the same kind of players in both leagues..but there is much more cherry-picking of games in FUMBBL (just try to get a Amazon team to play a dwarf team in FUMBBL..)

That is my biggest complaint on FUMBBL...just about everyone will avoid the tough challenges (or dwarves just because they are dwarves). But the LRB rules and the java client make the league very attractive (and FUMBBL has it's share of cheaters)

[Grambo]

I'll toss in my $.02 here as well...

I was one of the folks who basically played the "kinder, gentler" system in OLBBL... by personal preference. I often would try to RR bad things, though usually in exchange for a concession. I also indeed have lost games because of "being a nice guy".

This having been said, it was all personal choice. I fouled plenty, but generally did it only if it was a tactical necessity (ie, I didn't foul your down star because he was down and a star... if I fouled him it was because I was hoping to get him off the pitch because I needed that square) or in response to opposing fouling (I'm a big believer in revenge). I played tons of games without a single foul... and played the nastiest of foulfests (and both were fun in their own ways).

Again, however... this was MY style. Yes, I was opinionated about it... and yes, I enjoyed playing against folks of that style. While I agree with Tim that this helped make the super-teams (TR-wise), that isn't entirely true... I played a LOT of the ugliest and nastiest games with my Amorous Goats, and they became plenty strong despite it. I lost several stars (+ST guys, etc), and kept on going.

I will, however, again pipe in that I think the super-teams ARE the problem... more so than any argument of 3rd vs LRB. The greatest advantage the LRB has is the aging system (which is identical to the system I was using in offline leagues long before LRB). If players eventually degrade, they eventually get replaced. Old stars replaced by young stars, and the team maintains their TR.

Anyway, just my ramblings... take 'em for what they're worth.

Oh, and hi Khel

[GLORY]

Reviving a dead horse, I know, but here's my two cents.

I'm a current OLBBL coach, have been for many years, and mostly, I just miss the old guys. Sure, the new guys are great, but missing some of the guys like DB (GET AGGRESSIVE), Az (Okay, so I just want to call him names again), Bestimmer and Ava (hll gus)...hakes (We must finish game CCXII of our series) The list may go on and on.

My position on this whole OLBBL vs FUMBBL thing is not completely for OLBBL, but mostly against FUMBBL. People who complain about cheating, but yet have cheating be a lot easier (who's paying attention to one game that may get dropped when there's 100000+ games going on, or whatever the number may be). We have one guy in charge of all that. Sure, it may be inefficient, but it's Cujo, and Cujo would never lie. I doubt it's in his programming. Cheating in OLBBL is hard, and really gives no benefits.

As for super-teams, a new idea to solve this is to make more divisions from the current Region system. Of course, this came along during the WBBE series (which is my non-league, and may never open, but oh well), but it goes something like this. Have a league seperate for high-TR teams, maybe even two. For low-TR, seperate into style of play. Have the more prestigious leagues have general rules for style of play that are more like suggestions, then have specialized leagues for certain styles of play (one super-competitive, no-friendly foul, straight-up league). Or something along these lines, I'm not sure. Talk would be good.

What people don't understand about the OLBBL community is that it's democratic...Well, to an extent. Kinda like the US, there are power players, and we're not gonna let everyone vote on everything. But, the whole staying with 3rd edition and changing the rules to hopefully make things work better has been overall an agreed process. If you want OLBBL to change, make noise before one of the commish meetings, and try to talk to them that way.

So, if you want to try to make OLBBL go into the new rules, then come join, play a few games...The old coaches don't bite (unless you try to cheat), and we'll teach you the house rules if need be. Nobody remembers all the house rules, that's what the lockerroom is for. So when you come in to visit, because you all should, tell them Glory sent you. They will probably laugh, and then ask "Who let him recruit for us?"...Try us out now before making judgements from our past, or listening to people's opinions. Or being scared by our recently-updated rules page. We really just want more coaches to play, and enjoy any new competition. As long as you're not a complete pain in the backside.

-Glory

[m0nty_au]

I see a lot of accusations flying around here about FUMBBL, and most of them are untrue, or not our fault (I'm an admin over there, BTW).

Yes, we have coaches who like to destroy other teams. Every league does if it gets big enough. They quickly become notorious. Anyway, if fouling is in the rules, who are we to prevent it? We don't condone the sort of "cheating" that the OLBBL guys do by rerolling injuries. We would consider that to be just as damaging to league balance as constant fouling, if not more so.

No, cheating is not widespread. We host about 600 games per day (statistics here) and we wouldn't have problems with more than half a dozen every day, maximum, with the average being less than that. The Java client makes it very hard to cheat, with the most common tactic being disconnecting after an unfavourable dice roll so that the game doesn't save and record the result - but it is a very simple process for us admins to force the cheater back to the game and ensure the right result happens. We also have a very rigorous system for detecting soft games and multiple consecutive unbalanced games between a handful of players to build their teams up.

On the amount of admins, the FUMBBL admins comprise 14 full admins, plus another 17 team approvers. That's more than enough to cover the 24/7 nature of FUMBBL, since we are geographically distributed across many timezones.

Finally, on the 3rd edition vs LRB debate: not only does FUMBBL incorporate the LRB, we will also be the premier source for Vault playtesting data when the Vault rules settle down to a stable version (hopefully tomorrow in 1.5!). Playing with LRB and Vault rules means you're participating first-hand in the evolution of the game, not cocooning yourself from change in a little backwater that fewer and fewer people will want to visit.

There, I think the honour of FUMBBL has been protected.

[Duke Jan]

I just love the OLBBL its just that:
a) My ISP appears to be incompatible with the OLBBLs IRC provider
b) the tool doesn't download new pictures automatically
c) I keep confusing LRB and 3rd edition rules
d) Its sometimes hard to get a game

But I really like:
a) The ruleset
b) The real time thingy
c) The fact that at least I can connect to a server now (as apposed to some years back)
d) The other coaches
e) I've been very lucky with my WE Catcher skill rolls so far
f) Its fun

I would like to try FUMBBL sometime to compare, but one RT online league is already quite a lot. By then I will make a comparison. But on the voting, I'm going to vote on sticking to 3rd ed. Because that's the fun of OLBBL.