new trait: Toughness

KLK · Post by **KLK** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:19 am

please let me know what do you think about this new strenght trait:

Toughness:this player is hard, and his body is strong, so, the player's armor cannot be modificated by mighty blow, secret weapons or fouls, and always is the same.

I try that toughness give an extra point of armos to the player, but after a couple of games, we decided the change (could you imagine a mummy with AV 10?, or a black orc?, or an ogre?)

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:20 am

(could you imagine a mummy with AV 10?, or a black orc?, or an ogre?)

Not only can I imagine it but I played against them. The magic Helmet card was a killer. IMO the most powerful card there was.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:42 am

Toughness was a skill in 2ed and it had levels (some 2ed skills such as Block, Toughness, Mighty Blow, had levels), the level of the skill was subtracted from the injury roll (think of the pre-Sigurd's injury table), if the modified roll was below 2 then no injury but an unmodified roll of 12 still was a kill.

Not sure how you would translate that into LRB rules. Your idea of having the skill make the AV roll not modified by any other skill is just like the skill Tattoos that was found in the BB Compendium 1. BTW, I believe Galak's MBBL2 uses something similar but calls it Null Field or something like that.
I suppose if I were to try to change the old skill into something that would fit the LRB I would do this;
Toughness - a player with this trait is so physically and/or mentally tough that he makes an injury roll with a -2 modifier. A casualty result still requires an unmodified Sigurd's roll. If the modified injury roll bring the total below 2, then the player is placed prone but face up on the pitch.

KLK · Post by **KLK** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:34 am

Sorry pals, but I know about the Blood Bowl game only a year ago, and here we don't have any GW store, so, I don't know anything about the old games. anyway, thanks for your opinions.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:42 am

-2 !!!!!

I think a -1 modifier to the Injury roll would do, Torg old chap!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:21 am

Torg wrote:Not sure how you would translate that into LRB rules. Your idea of having the skill make the AV roll not modified by any other skill is just like the skill Tattoos that was found in the BB Compendium 1. BTW, I believe Galak's MBBL2 uses something similar but calls it Null Field or something like that.

MBBL2 uses both Tattoos and Null Field. Tattoos is a Racial Characterstic for the Savage Orc team. Null Field can be found as a starting skill in the Halfling and Wild Cards team and its also a Physical that you get on doubles.

Tattoos and Null Field does exactly what was described above. In addition, the Orc Spellcaster in the MBBL2 can cast a spell during a game that gives an Orc the skill, Waaagh Armour ... this cancels out all modifiers on the armour AND the injury roll.

So yes, its a good skill ... makes an interesting Physical trait which is where I think it should be ... not in the Strength category. Also as a footnote, the PBeM recognizes Tattoos, Null Field, and Waaagh Armour automatically if a player has them and eliminates the modifies as appropriate.

Now if you want to add Toughness back the game. My best thought is one that was discussed on TBB a while back and Chet supports also. Rename Spikes to Toughness and make it a General or Strength trait.

Galak

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:30 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:Rename Spikes to Toughness and make it a General or Strength trait.

I'd like it as a Strength trait. It may seem over-powered to see AV 10 BOBs walking around again, but unlike the magic helmet of yore, it would take up a skill choice, and a valuable one at that. The AV 10 player would likely be one without PO, RSC, MB combos. A possible problem with the Strength category may be the lack of selection makes PO etc. a no-brainer. I think this and Sideswipe (as a skill, not trait) should be added to the Strength category and then the issue should be closed.

It should definitely not be a General trait. No "Tough" Wardancers or human catchers thank-you!

Who ever took Spikes as a PA anyway?

Get some use out of a reasonable skill.

Force · Post by **Force** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:09 pm

In my oppinion it has to become a General Skill or Trait. For the simple reason that the skill has to be appealing at least to someone. And strength teams are already blessed with AV9 so few will be silly enough to give up Block or Tackle or Mighty Blow to improve where they already excell.

As to Players like Wood Elf Wardancers - AV8 is not like they wear Plate Mail, and it costs them at least one Skill (not that those guys would need any skills....)

So yes, i would like to see coaches waste skills on armour. I would never do that unless the player already hass all usefull skills he needs.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:38 pm

Xtreme wrote:
(could you imagine a mummy with AV 10?, or a black orc?, or an ogre?)
Not only can I imagine it but I played against them. The magic Helmet card was a killer. IMO the most powerful card there was.

Yes, because it was for free IIRC.
Would it really be broken to allow an AV+1 (to a maximum of 10) instead of a skill on a 9? Very rarely do you encounter players with spikes. AV+1 would be the worst of all 4 possible stat-increases (with the exception of AG 2 and AG 1 players perhaps).

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:46 pm

I'm totally against Toughness as a injury mod. I'm more than happy that those 2nd ed. Toughness Lv4 Elf Blitzer or Skaven Catcher days are over. Can you spell "undestructable"?

We just got rid of Piling On, no need to introduce a positive version (in terms of decreasing the injury roll)

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:20 pm

MBBL2 moved Toughness (+1 AV) to a Strength Trait
and
Invunerable (ignore all AV modifiers) to a Strength Trait as well for Season 4.

Galak

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:35 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:MBBL2 moved Toughness (+1 AV) to a Strength Trait [...]

Hmmm, when would one take AV+1 rather than Stand Firm?

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:58 pm

Two double rolls?

DesTroy · Post by **DesTroy** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:59 am

narkotic wrote:I'm totally against Toughness as a injury mod. I'm more than happy that those 2nd ed. Toughness Lv4 Elf Blitzer or Skaven Catcher days are over. Can you spell "undestructable"?

I don't mean to be picky, but in English that word is spelled "indestructible."

Just as a BTW...

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:51 pm

narkotic wrote:I'm totally against Toughness as a injury mod. I'm more than happy that those 2nd ed. Toughness Lv4 Elf Blitzer or Skaven Catcher days are over. Can you spell "undestructable"?

We just got rid of Piling On, no need to introduce a positive version (in terms of decreasing the injury roll)

Well we did have Mighty Blow (level 4) to make do

(+4 to armour roll, +2 to injury roll for those that don't know). Plus assassins, pit traps, secret weapons... More than one way to skin a cat