Hard TR Caps vs Negative Winnings+Freebooted Apoths

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:42 am

No One Turner in a Skaven Team. There is a sign of hope for bloodbowl

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:21 pm

I was always in favour of a hard cap until Galak persuaded me out of it. I voted fro the TBB package.

Loof · Post by **Loof** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:00 am

Havent had time to wade through all of this yet... but here are my thoughts hope im not just repeating stuff others have said.

Generaly im in favor of negative winnings and freebooting apotecarys, but i would like to add a few extra ideas.

#1: Why not alow players to freeboot multiple apotecharys for matches they beleve will be extra bloody?

#2: I dont like negative treasury adding to TR (i dont like treasury adding to TR at all for that matter since it doesnt make a team better)

#3: Lastly i think that the whole TR calculation formula would do well with an overhaul since in alot of ways it doesnt do what it is suposed to do (give a number that rates how good a team is).
A few examples of what i mean: treasury as mentioned above, but also spp's directly afecting TR. A player with 5 skills has roughly 2x as many spp's as a player with 4 skills but he is in no way twice as good. also a player that just got his 4th skill adds just as much to a teams chance to win as a player that almost has gotten his 5th skill but this isnt reflected in TR as it stands now.

EDIT: oh and yes the new ideas for handicap tables look nice to, less random

mull · Post by **mull** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:23 am

From just glancing through the posts I see some serious errors in judgement. The 1st is looking at FUMBBL and assuming the current rules are flawed because of the teams that currently exist in FUMBBL. From a true bloodbowl gaming aspect FUMBBL is flawed.

(1) The handicap table does not follow LRB yet - the biggest problem is that you do not get to pick the 5th handicap result at +101 TR. This feature in itself would render many of the TR inflated teams UNPLAYABLE due to virus. (2) Unlike a real BB league, you can pick and choose (ie cherry pick) games. So an elf team can play 100 games against nothing else but other elves without any MB or dirty players, and thus avoid many injuries while their TR soars. Again, not VERY realistic.

So don't try and create a system that cures teams on FUMBBL since it is FUMBBL itself that is creating the monsters.

2nd - if the concept of a TR cap "limiter" is the way you want to go then fine. I can understand the rule changes to force team management decisions at the higher TR levels - or else face the consequences (ie negative earnings). But I DON'T agree with making nigglers worse than they are. That change effects every team TR100 and up. Why force TR115 teams to make roster changes for nigglers when they are in no danger of hitting any type of cap limit? That's just forcing roster turnover for turnover sake, and that's just d--b.

And don't anwser back with "it's your choice to keep them or not", because it's not really. When you make a niggler THAT bad, any decent coach is going to retire him because they can't afford to waste the roster spot.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:58 am

solid first post!!!!!!!!!!!

agree completely. Keep the LRB like it is. Too many friggin hard teams out there that just won't get hurt without aging.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:14 pm

I do agree with some of the points about fumbbl. Our league is open in structure but unlike fumbbl we will have to face the killer teams at some point because there's only so many coaches to play.

Injuries are a big balancing factor for teams like the wood elves and can be completely avoided by unscrupulous coaches on fumbbl.

These type of coaches can also abandon teams who do not develop well in the first few games (extra stats & doubles etc.) and start from scratch.

Anyone trying these things in our FTF league would be constantly mocked by the rest of the league.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:51 pm

I don't mind aging because my league is so bash heavy right now. All the agility teams are pretty much out--by natural selection--they just don't last. There is a chaos team that is a true terror to play right now...he's the highest rated team in the league and his team can destroy other teams. (2 dirty players, 2 claws, 1 claw/rsc/pilingon) and the only injuries on the team are from aging.

So with neg winnings/apoths we'd just be feeding the beast. I think we need aging just to put a couple chinks in his armor.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:52 pm

I don't mind aging because my league is so bash heavy right now. All the agility teams are pretty much out--by natural selection--they just don't last. There is a chaos team that is a true terror to play right now...he's the highest rated team in the league and his team can destroy other teams. (2 dirty players, 2 claws, 1 claw/rsc/pilingon) and the only injuries on the team are from aging.

So with neg winnings/apoths we'd just be feeding the beast. I think we need aging just to put a couple chinks in his armor.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:19 pm

gken1 wrote:I don't mind aging because my league is so bash heavy right now. All the agility teams are pretty much out--by natural selection--they just don't last. There is a chaos team that is a true terror to play right now...he's the highest rated team in the league and his team can destroy other teams. (2 dirty players, 2 claws, 1 claw/rsc/pilingon) and the only injuries on the team are from aging.

So with neg winnings/apoths we'd just be feeding the beast. I think we need aging just to put a couple chinks in his armor.

Can't confirm that. Whereas my bashy Orcs suffer from those new rules (good thing), my Elves finally have a perspective (most severe injuries were from ageing

).

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:12 pm

oh your elves would get slaughtered in our league......70% of the coaches just hate elves so they get an extra boot when playing them.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:21 pm

gken1 wrote:oh your elves would get slaughtered in our league......70% of the coaches just hate elves so they get an extra boot when playing them.

My elves get slaughtered too, but it have been the ageing nigglings that hurt the team most.

tchatter · Post by **tchatter** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:10 am

Well it took me a while but I finally read through most of the 19 pages or so of this thread.

First I don't agree with ageing the way that it is now. It really sucks to get your first skill roll only to recieve a niggling injury or worse. I instantly retire the player for something that wasn't my choice. Yes I did use the player to gain SPPs which of course gained him the skill, but c'mon...

I also must say that I REALLY like the negative winnings rule. It seems to mimic a player asking for more money or "salary caps" like in the NFL. If you can't afford your stars then they leave the team. Or you get rid of your stars to get under the "cap".

The niggle rule seems fine to me also since lets face it, if a real life player has a "bum" knee he may not be able to play the whole game. Also if I have a player with a bad knee and I know that as a coach, then I would be faced with the decision of keeping him or letting him go. One tweak that could be considered would be that a player with 1 Niggle only rolls at the beginning of the game, a player with 2+ Niggles would roll both at the beginning and the end of the game.

I think that the 5 point system would be a big improvement over the current system. It will be interesting to see some real life results. Which is why my fixed schedule league that only plays about 10 games per season will be trying it out. We'll see how it goes...

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Thu May 20, 2004 9:58 am

TBB Package - step 5

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:10 pm

Eh?

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:16 pm

Eh?

Talk Fantasy Football

Hard TR Caps vs Negative Winnings+Freebooted Apoths

To encourage long term league balance which would you rather see tested?