Specailist team

[David Bergkvist]

The lineman and thrower still cost out at the same 60k, and the Catcher is still a 120,000 player. The Blitzer is a 110,000 player.

But then you're counting every skill as 20k, I assume? Extra arms and two heads are not worth 20k each. In fact, they're not even worth 20k together, since they're worse than a point of AG as that also provides +1 to pass and pick up. Similarly, thick skull is not worth 20k, as it's less useful than +1 AV, which generally costs 10k.

I'm pretty sure there's a guideline somewhere that says you shouldn't give a 4 AG to a stunty player. Giving them 2 heads and extra arms seems pretty much the same thing to me.

But the point is that while they have this great advantage of being able to dodge everywhere on 2+, they're pretty worthless at anything else. Due to their lack of dodge, they're more easily killed than a goblin.

The guidelines are (among other things) meant to avoid making players that can only do one thing, but we want to make such players in this thread.

I could have given them:

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8 2 3 7  A  Catch, Dodge, Nerves of Steel, Stunty

instead, to follow the guidelines, but then they'd be more all-round players.

[Skummy]

I'll agree that Two Heads and Extra arms aren't particularly good skills, but when combined with Stunty, NOS, and Catch you've made a monster who can intercept like an elf in tackle zones with a reroll. He can dodge anywhere on the board on a 2+. A 9 AV thickskull regen lineman is incredibly good because he stays on the board all the time and irriatates people.

I could easily see costing out the blitzer to 130,000 just becasue he starts with Dauntless and Horns, which let him get 2 dice on anyone anywhere. A 9 AV stunty player is also a bit of a head scratcher. I'm not saying that this team is too good, because it's got a lot of unusual combinations that have never been playtested as far as I know. It would need some playtesting to find out, though.

If you use fumbbl, you could create this roster and try a series of games to see how they act in a play-environment.

How much do you see rerolls costing? I'd think they should be on the expensive side, since teams with unbalanced players usually have higher cost rerolls.

[David Bergkvist]

I'll agree that Two Heads and Extra arms aren't particularly good skills, but when combined with Stunty, NOS, and Catch you've made a monster who can intercept like an elf in tackle zones with a reroll.

AFAIK, extra arms do not give +1 to intercept, so he only intercepts on a 6+, which is no better than a human catcher. At least, that's what I assumed when I made the team.

He can dodge anywhere on the board on a 2+.

But skinks can dodge anywhere on 3+ with a reroll, which has better chances. Sure the skinks can only use their dodge one time, whereas this player can use his two heads each dodge, but in order for the skink to be a worse dodger, you have to make several dodges (I don't feel like calculating how many), at which point the chances of not falling over any of them suddenly aren't so great.

A 9 AV thickskull regen lineman is incredibly good because he stays on the board all the time and irriatates people.

Yes, but that player can't do anything else, though.

I could easily see costing out the blitzer to 130,000 just becasue he starts with Dauntless and Horns, which let him get 2 dice on anyone anywhere.

He only gets to dice if the opposing player has no assists. Who places their ball carrier, or whoever it is you want to knock down, out in the open? But I could go for block instead of one of dauntless and horns. He should however have at least two of block, dauntless and horns, since otherwise, he's a complete moron when it comes to blitzing.

A 9 AV stunty player is also a bit of a head scratcher.

The reason I gave him AV 9 was because an AV 8 blitzer was suggested, and the injury bonus of stunty means he'd need AV 9 to be as tough as that AV 8 blitzer. But I could go for AV 8, too.

How much do you see rerolls costing?

70k. If the re-rolls were cheap, you might pass the ball to the blitzers etc, and we can't have that.

[duff]

rr at 70k or even higher. The team should be forced to rely hevily on the player's skills. Also, it will slow the teams growth, and I suspect this style of team could get out of hand if not carefully calibrated.

I like the idea of a stunty st 2 blitzer with horns and/or dauntless.
Perhaps take away physical skills (too easy to get more flexability)
Start with dauntless so block is the first skill or start with block so theygrow a little slower.
This sort of blitzer requires a blocker to hide behind although the lineman may do this well enough.

[Skummy]

You guys might want to think about creating the team and playtesting it using fumbbl tools. I think it's going to turn into a bit of a monster at high TR levels, but I could be wrong.

Extra arms does give you +1 on all attempts to catch the ball - intercepting is a kind of catch. That's why you can reroll the attempt with the "catch" skill.

Oh, and since most of the team regenrates, would it have an apothecary?

[David Bergkvist]

You guys might want to think about creating the team and playtesting it using fumbbl tools.

I used the java client and played some games at TR100, with the following results:

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Versus                   Score
Specialists - Human       2-1
Specialists - Wood Elf    0-5
Specialists - Khemri      0-1
Specialists - Orc         1-2
Specialists - Chaos Dwarf 1-2
Specialists - Lizardman   2-1

(The big loss against the wood elves was because the wood elves knocked out all AG 3+ players so the specialists couldn't pick up the ball).

The team was the same as mentioned previously, except that the blitzers had AV 8 and block instead of horns.

Extra arms does give you +1 on all attempts to catch the ball - intercepting is a kind of catch.

The rules don't say anything about interceptions being a kind of catch.

That's why you can reroll the attempt with the "catch" skill.

The catch skill specifically say you get to re-roll a failed attempt to intercept. "It also allows the player to re-roll the
dice if he drops a hand-off or fails to make an interception." If interceptions were catches, they wouldn't have put it that way.

Oh, and since most of the team regenrates, would it have an apothecary?

An apothecary would make the catchers and throwers tougher, and we can't have that, so no apothecary.

Btw, maybe I should decrease the catcher's AV to 6? That would make them the uncontestedly most vulnerable player in the game (as they don't have dodge).

[Skummy]

Interesting rules interpretation on the Catch thing. It's the kind of thing you wouldn't see crop up too often, since nobody takes extra arms. Still, the LRB says opposing things at multiple places - mabye a bbrc member will pop in and tell us for sure.

I'm more worried about the team at TR 175+, when the positinal players have filled into their roles more.

[Gus]

i completely agree with David, "interception rolls" are not catch rolls. the only skill giving +1 to intercept is Very Long Legs.

[Alesdair]

Intercepts are a type of Catch, otherwise you couldn't use Catch Skill.

BUT

Xarms is not for intercepts...
Read the LRB description of the skill.

[gken1]

yeah says right in skill description: this skill does not work on interceptions..


it'd be more fun to play if they did make it work for ints' tho....

could imagine a gutter runner: 9 2 5 7 dodge, vll, catch, extra arms + passblock.

if xtra arms counted he'd int at 3+ with a reroll

[Xeterog]

I recently had a GR like that (without the extra arms).. was nice to make interception attempts at 4+ with catch.

or was it 3+

agil 5 is normally 2+ -2 for int +1 for VLL so 3+ yea (would be 2+ if extra arms counted

[Alesdair]

That's the good thing about giving the catchers Xarms and 2Heads insted of AG4, because they are catcher specilists... they shouldn't be able to pick up the ball as good as they dodge or catch, but they shoud be able to catch and dodge very well.

I'm likeing this team more and more.

How about instead of the positions starting with mutations, they can get specific mutations on Dubs... Ie Blizters can get Horns or Claw on Dubs, while the Thrower could get BigHand on dubs and the linemen could get Thickskull, Spikes etc

[Alesdair]

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0-12 Lineman  4 3 1 9  GS   Thick Skull, Regenerate
0-2  Thrower  6 2 4 7  P  Pass, Sure Hands
0-4  Catcher  8 2 3 7  A  Stunty, Two Heads, Catch, Extra Arm, Nerves of Steel
0-4  Blitzer  7 2 2 7  G  Stunty, Two Heads, Dauntless, Horns

How about that? I droped the Blitzers armour... they ar to hit, not be hit...

And gave the Linemen ST skills... because most of them are linemen skills