Clarifications on certain points about OLBBL

Gandi1 · Post by **Gandi1** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:26 pm

First of all hi everyone.

Reading through some of the posts I have seen loads of people talking about the Olbbl, and often not in a flattering way. I would like to have opinions from anybody who would care give me their opinion, but I would like to have constructive comments, and not just people saying how crap Olbbl is without them having even experienced it ...

Anybody who does not know what Olbbl is visit http://www.olbbl.com/, or join #Lockerroom on mIRC, you will be more than welcome.

Anybody who has experienced Olbbl in the past, I would like to say that it has changed alot over the last few years, and I invite you all to come and experience Olbbl now. If you argue that the Client is crap, be noticed that a new client is under construction, and should be available soon we all hope.

If you argue that 3ed suck, well that is just a matter of opinion, although I would like to point out that it does not suck as bad as certain people say. No Aeging for starters, meaning that your AG+ ST+ wardancer will not get -ST because of Aeging. Diving tackle does offer more possibilities instead of just being a crap skill roll, and no it is not over powered because Stand Firm wich is not a trait negtes negates the end of action on a push from Diving Tackle. Big Guys can get rid of their negative skill, although only on a double wich does not render the task easy. People might argue that allies are crap and are usseless, but they work towards the balance of the game, and besides you dont have to buy allies if you dont want to.

In Olbbl the general atmosphere is much more freindlier than that of other leagues, Coaches do not take any pleasure in devastating your team, and you will not see your Claw Rsf Chaos Warrior, or your 2ST+ Wardancer you are so proud of and that took ages for you to train die as easily as he would die in Fumbbl or similar.

Having said that, I am open to any comments, but please be constructive and do not just say you hate Olbbl out of an out of date experience of it.
If you do not know Olbbl, experience it yourself before saying it is crap, and do not let other people influence you in thinking it is crap before you have tested it.

Thanks to all who would answer to this post.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:14 am

What I would say is that IMO LRB is overall a much better system than 3rd ed - and thanks to Javabowl & FUMBBL I have a choice.

So I choose LRB - well actually I'm choosing negative winnings at the moment in FUMBBL DivX - but there you go.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:50 am

I was in the OLBBL from the begining, was commish there for a few years. I enjoyed it very much. In the beginning, when it was straight 3rd ed with just a few modifications, it was great. however, as time went on and more and more modifications were made, I began to lose interest...then I didn't even play Bloodbowl for a year or so---until I played in the GenCon Bloodbowl Tournament last year.

I find I like the LRB rules better in many ways, and the JavaClient is better than the client used in the OLBBL---not that the OLBBL client is bad or anything--it's still a great tool.

In short, I've always felt the OLBBL was a great league to be in and I probably would still be in it today if FUMBBL wasn't around OR the OLBBL changed to LRB rules. I liked the atmosphere in the OLBBL. However, at least when I was there, there still were coaches that were only out to destroy other teams...you always get those people it seems

Oh, and I suggest you read the OLBBL rules, because your statement:

Diving tackle does offer more possibilities instead of just being a crap skill roll, and no it is not over powered because Stand Firm wich is not a trait negtes negates the end of action on a push from Diving Tackle

does not mesh with what the rules on the OLBBL site say!

A dice roll result of PUSHBACK (or PUSHBACK/POW with Dodge) counts as a Pushback result even though the player doesn't move. So, skills like Strip Ball and Frenzy will work against a Stand Firm player, and if hit by a Diving Tackler, a Pushback result ends the Stand Firm player's action.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:52 pm

Wow, someone says "OLBBL" and suddenly a lot of names from the past reappear (Hi Cory!). Anybody seen Mike Howard?

Gandi, the other thread did not mean to diss the OLBBL. I've played there for years, i've been a commish for some time and i enjoyed most of it.

However, in the last years and with the release of the LRB, Blood Bowl has developed into what most players consider a better game than 3rd Ed. OLBBL hasn't developed much and thus -while still being attractive for some coaches who like 3rd Ed, Allies and unlimited team development- has fallen behing other leagues in terms of attractiveness.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:24 pm

Just out of curiousity how many games is OLBBL seeing these days.

Looking at 3 of the larger online leagues that I can see the stats for ... I see the following:

The LRB only PBeMBBL is seeing over 40 games a week. (PBeM)
The LRB with lots of extra is seeing over 60 games a week. (PBeM)
The LRB and LRB+experimental of FUMBBL is seeing over 4,500 games a week (Java).

Just curious how many people are actually still playing matches in the OLBBL environment.

Galak

christer · Post by **christer** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:23 pm

I played in OLBBL for a while back in '97 or so...

I'm quite confident that alot of things have happened since then, but here's what I don't like (based on my experience from back then and from what I can gather from the site today):

- I don't like the client as much as I like javabbowl.
I'm sure the new version will be better, but for now it's vapourware so this point stands.

- Uncentralized, uncontrolled team management
You are expected to keep your own team roster up to date. This is error-prone, both by cheating and by mistakes. FUMBBL may not be perfect in every respect, but it sure does team management in a very very nice way. I'm sure OLBBL has some form of cheating detection for this, but I suspect that they can't possibly detect every single gold coin in all existing teams.

- Lack of stats
I'm a stat-freak. The OLBBL website doesn't seem to be able to track the development of teams/players.

- Too many house rules
Very daunting task to learn the specific changes from the published rules. I'd have to spend a day reading the rules page

- Monster TR teams
I don't enjoy playing at super high TR. As a matter of fact, I believe the LRB ruleset allows teams to progress too high. IMO, the best games are played at around TR 175-200 where there are a select few "stars" on the field. Ageing may not be the best rule ever, but I can accept it as a mechanic to keep TR down. I also think it's a good thing that players get killed proper in games. Again, as a way to keep TR down.

Now, you may argue that I don't have to build a super high TR team if I don't want to.. However, that's not an acceptable argument to me. I'm competetive. I love building a team and playing it to success. If I don't get a high TR in an OLBBL like environment, I can't compete at the top. The same goes for allies and whatever power-enhancing house rules exist.

- Cards
I totally dislike cards. They add too much randomness to the game. It becomes a game that is decided by who draws the most TD stopper cards.

That covers the major reasons I don't like OLBBL (and 3rd ed rules overall).

Oh, and I would also like to know how many games are being played on OLBBL.. Like I said, I like stats

Grambo · Post by **Grambo** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:27 pm

As someone who was a long-time commish in the OLBBL, much like Cory, I'll go ahead and chime in here.

I think you'll hear opinions all over the map regarding 3rd vs. LRB. Personally, I like some of LRB, and I like some of what was before. I would never dream of dissin' the OLBBL for sticking to 3rd.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem the OLBBL has is the "Premiere" teams, and the overblown teams that continue to exist. 3rd Edition blood bowl really begins to break down when teams get in excess of about 300-ish TR... the lines become blurred about what the team is, and some rules mechanics begin to become overpowered (Diving Tackle is a great example... I, for a time, ran a Norse team that fielded 9 DTers and 2 Trolls, with every DTer having Dauntless/Pro or ST4/Pro).

Another factor is the shock factor new people may have to the inflated TRs. When folks who don't know anything about the OLBBL see the numerous 600+ TR teams, they just sort of gasp and head out, I think... I know some friends who I pointed that way who did exactly that. The league LOOKS intimidating... and you aren't easily presented the feeling that you can ever "get there".

These problems were, in my opinion, exacerbated by the "B team" concept, which I violently opposed, but was outvoted on. My fear was exactly what came to manifest... a system whereby teams would become full of +1 and +2 ST guys, once again breaking normal game balance.

I do commend you for asking for input, Gandi... and for helping maintain the oldest Online BB league. I'll also add that regardless of the opinions of the many old farts (like me) and other opinionated folk, as long as you guys are having a good time, that's really all that matters.

Grambo

Gandi1 · Post by **Gandi1** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:25 pm

GorTex wrote: Oh, and I suggest you read the OLBBL rules, because your statement:
Diving tackle does offer more possibilities instead of just being a crap skill roll, and no it is not over powered because Stand Firm wich is not a trait negtes negates the end of action on a push from Diving Tackle
does not mesh with what the rules on the OLBBL site say!
A dice roll result of PUSHBACK (or PUSHBACK/POW with Dodge) counts as a Pushback result even though the player doesn't move. So, skills like Strip Ball and Frenzy will work against a Stand Firm player, and if hit by a Diving Tackler, a Pushback result ends the Stand Firm player's action.

Well yes this IS a problem that is being worked at ... You will find the rules are not all in the rules section, because modifications have been made, but you can find them in the news if you have the courage to search through them, although something IS being made about that.

Satre · Post by **Satre** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:12 pm

Hi,

i played both systems Fumbbl and OLBBL.

My impressions on FUMBBL:

- good teammangement and match reporting system
- fast games
- quite unpersonal, irc and game
- unbalanced in favor of agil teams cos of leak of firepower for hitterteams
- stalling is a often used tactic (Saw it 3 out of 6 games)

My impressions on OLBBL:

- games take longer
- personal atmoshere in games (chating and spectators)
- balanced races including allies (exect tournamets in favor of hitterteams)
- no stalling (was stalled once in a lot of games)
- friendly atmosphere in general, people dont laugh in ur face when they kill a player (Maybe i cant judge FUMBBL in this point cos i only had one dead yet, but still the opp laught in my face)

Rules:

FUMBBL/LRB
- only basic skills, cos of traits
- no big options in team development, straight forward skill choosing

OLBBL/3rd:
- more weapon/antiweapon skills like Diving Tackle and Stand firm, Stand frim frenzy, dauntless against bigguys and strong players etc.
- bigger variations in teamdevelopment( including variations in ally selection)

Thats how i see both leagues and ruling systems. Fumbbl u play cos of playing manly to play a single game and not on teamdevelopment, olbbl u play if u like to build teams and try special playing tactics.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:43 pm

the only reason people find fumbbl less personal is because there are so many more coaches on there

if you actually sat around and chatted or even used the forums you would have a vastly different view

the just irc and game opinion you had I had the same view of olbbl from when i played there

its all down to how much effort you put into getting to know other guys on there, i spend more time chatting to coaches than i do playing

also spectate a cup final or something there can often be 50 spectatots chatting away in a match

you are going to get a gamut of differnt players in any league, I would rather someone laughed for killing my player than apologised for doing it after fouling

I think it all boils down to the ruleset, if you prefer the 3rd edition you play on olbbl, like the lrb you play on fumbbl, I am sure there are some coaches who play both

if you even liked you could learn french and go join the francebloodbowl online league