Leader?

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BadMrMojo
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Post by BadMrMojo »

Mirascael wrote:
NightDragon wrote:I would definately choose guard. For a WE team this is a crucial skill.
I have never been able to get a woodie-lineelf a second skill after Guard since he simply had a big red "TARGET No 1" on his face.
Actually I don't have nearly as much of a problem with people targeting the guard and I still have a tough time getting that second skill as well. I find that I tend to just use guards to slip into position to assist... and consequently they have a tough time gaining SPPs.

Guard's usually my first choice, however. Just be prepared to pass up on his usefulness occasionally to get him a TD or two if you want him to go anywhere.

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Post by Skummy »

Yup, that seems to be the eternal problem with Guards. They seem to help the other team get SPP's but freeze their own.

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Post by JJB »

...and the leader skill does not help much either. Actually, I'd target even more a lineman with leader than guard before my opponent has used one of his rerolls. And if he uses his leader reroll earlier than he wanted to (i.e. he uses the reroll on a unimportant failed roll in order not to waste that leader reroll in case the player with the leader trait gets booted out...), then I will have succeeded in making him lose the benefit of that trait.

Clear isn't it? :D

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Post by martynq »

I'm rather familiar with the Guard taking ages to get his second skill... the one I have on a High Elf team has finally got to his second skill - and I rolled a double, so don't get the Block that would help him get more SPPs. Instead I went for Jump Up.

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Post by MadLordAnarchy »

Leader has always been popular round my way. My players see it as a cheap TRR. The player that has leader tends to be the one given kick.

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Post by Dinaturz »

I agree with Mirascael in both his points:
Guard w/o block, makes the lino a moving target;
Leader is a nice boost for a rookie team.

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Post by bo »

hi!
you people seem to imply that the leader skill can be used for re-rolls by big guys? i wasn't aware of that- in fact i just looked that skill up, and in the lrb it simply states that the leader re-roll is treated in the same way as a common one. and big guys may never use one of those, so i thaught "pro" would be the only skill enabling them to re-roll... am i all wrong?
as i use a big guy in a league i would be happy to prove my opponents that a leader can be used, but i simply can't find that rule anywhere... can somebody please help me out? :)

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Post by Skummy »

I believe you can find the answer here: http://www.midgardbb.com/BBRC_HotList2002.html

The BBRC ruled that leader and trophy rerolls can be used by big guys.

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Post by berserker »

Skummy wrote:The BBRC ruled that leader and trophy rerolls can be used by big guys.
Not that it makes the trait and the big guys even better :D
I often take leader early on... Even if you don't improve your player, the team as a whole benefit from it... (and I even gave it to key position players I won't name in order to avoid the blaming...)

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Post by Fronko »

A little bit of advice to those guys, that have difficulties improve their elf linemen with guard:

Try to aim for situations, where the guard is used at the beginning of the turn. Then, the guard player can still move afterwards. Example: If you are receiving, place the guard player on the LOS where he can assist the wardancer in blitzing through the line. Once the blitzer moved through (together with a few other receivers), dodge into the opponents half, possibly again next to one of your receivers. In that case he might even be able to use his guard skill next turn, when the guy next to him can blitz himself free again (or to prevent 2D blocks against the receiver).

The trick is to move the guarder AFTER his guard was used for any block. That way, he may, just as any catcher in the opponents half, receive the ball and go for a touchdown himself.

This takes some time to get used to, but is probably worth the effort. :)

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Post by leblanc13 »

I used to be in the mindset that Leader would have been better as a first choice, but I have recently seen guard used to great effect on teams that I have to concede that it is the better choice overall. Leave leader as the second choice for a doubles roll.

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Post by Mirascael »

leblanc13 wrote:I used to be in the mindset that Leader would have been better as a first choice, but I have recently seen guard used to great effect on teams that I have to concede that it is the better choice overall. Leave leader as the second choice for a doubles roll.
OK, folks, to make the point more lucid:

Leader is not superior to Guard, of course.

From my experience though Leader is definitely superior to Guard if the following criteria are met:

- A rather new team low on RRs and rerollable skills (e.g. HE, DE, WE, Khemri, Undead)
- RRs for that team are expensive (at least 100k)
- Doubles on a lineman without any skills (e.g. lineelf, zombie, lineman, skeleton etc.)

The access to an additional RR for teams which start without (or almost without) skills like Block, Dodge, Sure Hands and Catch helps certain teams much more in early team development than Guard. Mummies and elves will see their skulls; pick-ups, dodges, passes and catches have to be rerolled. Playing elves doesn't mean you don't roll more than two 1-results each half, and playing mummies doesn't get you automatic pows all the time. Early Leaders have helped me alot in human, khemri and woodelf teams so far and I never ever regretted the choice to give a skillless lineelf, zombie or skeleton Leader. It always payed off much more than a blockless guarddude would ever have (and I have played these too). A nice adversary effect btw is the fact that you can buy certain positional key players earlier with such an extra RR since the purchase of an additional RR is no longer that crucial.

To sum it up:

Leader on a lineman can boost early team development for certain teams significantly.

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Post by Cooper »

Fronko wrote:A little bit of advice to those guys, that have difficulties improve their elf linemen with guard:

Try to aim for situations, where the guard is used at the beginning of the turn. Then, the guard player can still move afterwards. Example: If you are receiving, place the guard player on the LOS where he can assist the wardancer in blitzing through the line. Once the blitzer moved through (together with a few other receivers), dodge into the opponents half, possibly again next to one of your receivers. In that case he might even be able to use his guard skill next turn, when the guy next to him can blitz himself free again (or to prevent 2D blocks against the receiver).

The trick is to move the guarder AFTER his guard was used for any block. That way, he may, just as any catcher in the opponents half, receive the ball and go for a touchdown himself.

This takes some time to get used to, but is probably worth the effort. :)
I have used my guarding Lineelves to go in from behind...i mean send them a bit forward guard works from the other site as well. This means that if the situation might occur that he hasn't moved yet and i come in possession of the ball i can pass it to that one Guarder over there and run for the TD. This way his guard has proven very usefull, and still his progression isn't totally stopped...
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Post by leblanc13 »

I think that guard is always a good choice to take when given the opportunity. Besides, after the guard has assisted his linemates in putting down the opposistion, he can move into posistion to help your team make the big blitz later. He also can be the one to make the blitz when given the opportunity. If this is for a WE team, you could give him the ball and let him score in the early part of the league as most of your team is probably made up of linemen anyway. Allow him to score a few TDs and then give him block or dodge to make him more effective.

The problem is that you have to give players guard when the opportunity arises. It may never come again. Make the most of your Doubles rolls when you get the opportunity.

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Post by Havoc »

Very interesting discussion. I have already picked guard on the guy but I'm still learning to use it effectively. Either way my team is doing fine. All five games have been won and I only have a single niggling inury and TR 143.

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