Norse, how to beat them?

Emberbreeze · Post by **Emberbreeze** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:10 pm

For my sins I play Dark Elves (always have always will). I've just taken another beating at the hands of a Norse team in a PBeM game. I've played against norse twice now and got beaten good in both games, I need ideas on how to beat them.

Block gives them such a huge advantage in knocking players down and staying up themselves that I struggle to punch a hole for my receiver/runner and also keep enough players on the pitch.

This is for Tournament play so no tips on how to develop a team to beat them, this is with starting lineups or a couple of skill advances. I need to know how to beat them on the field

any tips for minimising 2 dice blocks against my players? any tips for maximising mine? Should I do my usual tactic of having 2 or 3 potential recivers and weaken any defence of the ball carrier? or should I have a small group of recivers to aid in protecting each other from the mobing that inevitably arrives?

All advice welcome

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:21 pm

Ever tried dodging

That is always useful to get you assists.
Try and run the ball more, you should be able to grind down a few of his players, AV7 v AV8
dont go near the sides due to the blitzers and their frenzy.
Try and dodge away most of your guys to leave him as few blocks as possiable,
Take a Dp as a skill choice and foul those blitzers.

Emberbreeze · Post by **Emberbreeze** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:30 pm

I don't have any luck with dodging in PBeM

the program seems to insist you get a 1 when you haven't had one for 5 rolls

Problem with them AV7 is that you have to get them on the ground first.

DP could work at reducing his numbers a bit (get those pesky blitzers of the field) and maximising the effect of knocking one of his players down. but even though I'm a DE I don't do much fouling, normally trying to score instead.

ScottyBoneman · Post by **ScottyBoneman** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:39 pm

I don't like the dodging angle either- particularly as you mention that this is an early DElf team so its not like you have dodge. Against a team with the lower hitting power of the Norse risking rolls that can end your turn but can't hurt him is not my favourite.

To really take advantage of the AG difference, to my mind you should be trying to open the field a little. Maintain the contact, but as much as possible spread the guys out on one-one battles on his turn to reduce his mobility but force him to make a lot of 1-die hits (for some reason Norse coach seem to adore them).

Unfortunately, you don't really have a speed advantage so I would look to pressure the ball as much as possible even if that means under-covering the receivers. If he scores make him do it quickly by throwing the ball and rolling some (admittedly easy dice). A high scoring game that focuses on the ball might tend to make him avoid the hits before the ball is moved.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:34 pm

I'd try to hit them 1st, not follow up if I'm going to be next to a standing Norse player, and avoid the sidelines.

As they've got S3 making a hole in the line shouldn't be too hard, and then your superior ball handling should help.

BTW Norse are a very good TR100 team - and Elves generally aren't, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Emberbreeze · Post by **Emberbreeze** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:14 pm

I know I'm making things hard for myself using Dark Elves in Tournament play

but when they work they are very fun to play

I leaning towards getting DP and then lots of block on line-elfs for skill in tournament play. I tried dodge on line-elfs at the PK&Q it was very useful against some teams but near worthless V dwarves and chaos dwarves.

I think I have to gear skills towards surviving against bashy teams and hope my team can outscore other agile teams.

Thanks for the advice, hope I have better luck next time

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:35 pm

What kind of starting lineup are you using for DE's in tourney play?

harald · Post by **harald** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:53 am

They have AV7. FOUL FOUL FOUL!!!

Emberbreeze · Post by **Emberbreeze** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:36 am

I'm still experimenting with 2 starting lineouts

one with 4 blitzers and 7 line elves
the other with 2 blitzers and 1 Witch Elf and 8 line elves

played my first game without a WE and I missed her, but she is very fragile and you really need an apoth to keep her on the field, and I can't afford one in a TR100 game.

I think I'm going to take 4 blitzers to the BB

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:44 am

I think you need luck when playing a TR100 Darkelf team against Norse...

or against any team really...TR 100 DE is just bad...

W

harald · Post by **harald** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:03 pm

There is no such thing as a bad AG4 team. They can always avoid getting hit due to everything is 2+.

You are always a threat to score since you can more or less always make that dodge.

Also employing the lose cage style of defense allows only for one of the elfs to get hit every turn. However a n00b team w/ AV8 does not break easily.

AG4 == cheating.

Asperon Thorn · Post by **Asperon Thorn** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:56 pm

If it is tourney play, try using 2 Blitzers, 1 WE, 1 Passer, y line elves. It is low on FF but it gives you a bit of everything and at the very least, is fun.

As for Norse, use your Blitzers to take the important blocks. Don't follow up and try to end your turn with as few people as possible next to his players.

Use your witch to seperate someone and then bring as much of the rest of your team as you can spare in for the foul. Never leave her on her own though, always have one or two linelves supporting, or one of your blitzers. And make sure you really plan for your frenzies.

The Passer, At ag4, will really open up a long ball threat, or at least a percieved one.

Lastly your AV is higher, so it is more advantageous for you to get into a bashy game with him rather then trying to run recievers deep for the score. You can move where you want with AG 4, so it is easier for your players to support one another then it is for him to do the same, avoid instances where your players are going off by thier lonesome.

Asperon Thorn

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:08 pm

IMHO, the main problem for norse is that they have to bash to get anywhere, yet they are to fragile to move players into contact.

That is, you want to build that wall 1 square ahead of the norse offense. When they move in, you block them all back again, one by one with 2d blocks.

They don't get anywhere, and sooner or later they get hurt. They'll have to find ways to move into contact without allowing you to get 2D blocks back - and that's very difficult with only ST3 players.

Another thing to remember: make sure you push the blitzers to a square where they can't just Jump Up and block you. Knock down the other players into your own TZ:s if you can - gives them less possible uses.

Both strentgh and AG teams can go for this tactic, but in different ways.

On offense it's trickier, since you'll be the one who wants to get anywhere, and is forced to move into contact. Maybe it'd actually be better to begin the matches with norse offense rather than your own - haven't trid this, but I will

Good luck!

MickeX

BunnyPuncher · Post by **BunnyPuncher** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:48 pm

Dirty Player

Kills norse dead.

Emberbreeze · Post by **Emberbreeze** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:18 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys

I think I've got something to try out next time. Bring em on!