Why do Dwarfs only got 6 positional players?

[Havoc]

High Elfs and Dark Elfs got additional postitional players because six is considered a bit to few. Why didn´t Dwarfs get updated to?

[narkotic]

See it the other way 'round: compared to other races, Dwarf teams consist entirely out of positional players (Longbeards begin with 3 Skills).

And six isn't a number set into stone, you have to consider the overall make up of a team.

[GalakStarscraper]

High Elfs and Dark Elfs got additional postitional players because six is considered a bit to few. Why didn´t Dwarfs get updated to?

Using this same logic ... then Chaos Dwarves only have 2 positional players ... right???

Galak

[Havoc]

No, using the same logic Chaos Dwarfs got eight positional players.

But using the same logic Chaos only got four

Ok, you win on the six positional. I guess HE and DE got extra players because they where considered weak (like CD)? How does Dwarfs genarally do in tournaments? I never hear about sucessful Dwarf teams.

[leblanc13]

using the same logic again, goblins and halfings have no positional players.

Dwarf longbeards not only have three starting skills, but they also have access to general and strength access. This means that you have an ungodly number of Guards pretty quickly. They don't need any more positional players to be effective.

Sorry to disagree on this Havoc but I feel that the dwarves have too many advantages and not enough weaknesses. MV 4 is not that harsh if you play them spread out across the field instead of bunching them up on the line of scrimmage.

[BadMrMojo]

....This means that you have an ungodly number of Guards pretty quickly.
...
MV 4 is not that harsh if you play them spread out across the field...

Good way to put that Guard to use.

Just giving you a hard time. Dwarves are fine as they are. Unless you're me and AV 9 means your opponent gets to roll 3 dice to break armor.

[Redfang]

Dwarfs have no linemen; I hate this comment!

If Dwarfs have no lineman, than that is a major flaw.

Other teams have linemen who can do everything a little bit, and nothing well.

Dwarf Longbeards can do only one thing. Sure, they can do it well, but it's only one thing. Considered this way, the Blitzers are the only true linemen on the Dwarf team. And they have only 2, which is not much.

What I'm trying to say is that I think a lineman is the player you can have 12 of. This means that there will always be plenty of them on a team and this means that they are not too important (individually). Positional players are those you get less of and Dwarfs have least of all (except the stunty teams).
If you want to get into the "Dwarfs are all positionals" logic than the above applies.

R

[Redfang]

BTW I think the Dwarfs are fine as they are or slightly too weak. They might profit from extra positionals (see a lot of other threads on this forum) but they don't really need them. Especially when the new SW rules come out.

[grotemuis]

Positional players are those you get less of and Dwarfs have least of all (except the stunty teams).
If you want to get into the "Dwarfs are all positionals" logic than the above applies.

R

you are forgetting lizzies (6) and chaos (4)

but hey, who cares. The teams are pretty balances as is. If you are a good coach you can win with every team. Even halflings and goblins have had their moments in the spotlights

[DoubleSkulls]

Because the teams that didn't get Big Guys got an extra 2.

And then they took the BG away from Dwarves, but didn't give them any extra....

[Redfang]

As I said, I don't really think that Dwarfs need extra positionals and I still think that Big Guys don't belong in a Dwarf team, but that still pisses me off.

SW rules must make up for that (Deathroller! Deathroller!)

[Xeterog]

The death roller would only make up for a lack of BG's if it could eventually get the block skill. Without block it falls over (and out of the game) waay too easily. and that 7+ penalty roll means even if it remains standing, you are only going to get 1 or 2 drives out of it (usually...there will be the occasional 'good rolling' game...)

[reservoirelves]

Unless I babysat the DR, it usually got knocked out quickly. The other coaches quickly figured out that a 1/2 die block will take it out of the game 25% of the time. Definately worth the risk. If they have a guy with Dauntless then your DR is a goner for sure.

The only time it was useful was against bashy teams. I had to bunch up my players anyway so the DR could be protected until it was time to get into the cage and knock over the ball carrier.

I think that the DR would be more balanced if knocked down = AutoStun and Armor penetration = out of game.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Dwarves, always dwarves.

here's the facts...yes facts...not opinions.

1. Longbeards are not positional. They do one thing, they do it well and nothing else.

2. Building a team of 8 or 10 longbeards with guard is not only EXTREMELY difficult, it's not near as powerful as some make it out to be.

3. The Death Roller is not a big guy. Nor can it fill that roll without gaining skills. It's a secret weapon and that's it. And in fact it's not a very good one. Its fear factor is its only real power.

4. Dwarves were not overpowered. They were not ruling any leagues that I saw, in fact I saw more uber-amazon teams than dwarf teams.

5. Dwarf teams have very little variety in skill development. There's not much choice in how to play them or develop them. They are very boring and becoming even more so.

6. The Dwarf teams in the MBBL have dropped their ogres and their rankings. These coaches, which Galak told me didn't mind losing their ogres, have grabbed up Deathrollers that appear to be gaining spps. (Not sure if they are gaining skills.) Wonder why that is?
These same teams have 23 longbeards total...14 of them have developed the same way (or are developing the same way) as a longbeard on another roster...guess which skills are the most common. Mighty Blow and Guard. The ONLY variations are a couple with Piling On and those few lucky enough to have rolled doubles.
So a bunch of Guard + Mighty Blow longbeards...how incredibly interesting.
Blitzers...does anyone choose anything but strip ball? Not in the MBBL, they don't.
The team has become as bland as plain rice cakes.

Okay now the opinions...

1. Ogres did not make the team broken in anything but fluff. The best way to fix the ogre problem was to either rewrite the fluff or to simply change the name from ogre to deathroller or iron golem or automaton or whatever.

2. The dwarf team as is, will become the least commonly played team very soon.

3. The dwarf team is ignored because nobody on the BBRC favors them. Out of sight, out of mind.

4. Now that the dwarf team has been taken down to a level that has little replay value, the team will never come back to what dwarf coaches loved.
Any attempt to fix what was done will only cause the elf and zon coaches to wail bloody murder.

5. The dwarf team is completely unplayable to anyone who has coached a dwarf team before the "fixes."
The removal of any skills that added a bit of flavor and the complete removal of the big guy have made it shallow, one dimensional, and extremely boring!
It requires no thought and gives no rewards.

I was a very dedicated dwarf coach for most of my 15 year Blood Bowl career and now I find them so bland that I will probably never run them again. Galak once challenged me to tell him what team to run and I told him to run Dwarfs but apparently he felt the same way because he hasn't bothered, as far as I know.

[DoubleSkulls]

2. The dwarf team as is, will become the least commonly played team very soon.

This isn't born out at tournaments where dwarves are very popular. Only Orcs have been represented at more NAF tournaments than Dwarves.