Dump Off & Strong Arm

[voyagers_uk]

In the same way that you can utilise side step to score a TD in your opponents turn (done that, laughed a lot ), if these two skills could be combined I could see a lot of dump-offs for TD's happening.
That would have it's pluses and minuses but I would still rather not combine them.

just my 2p anyway

[Dinaturz]

1. You may dump-off within quick pass range.
2. With Strong arm, you treat short passes just as you would a quick pass.

I agree.
It seems to me that rules are pretty clear (at least in this case... ):
You can declare a Quick Pass to avoid your team to loose the ball.
Strong arm will modify a Short Pass in a Quick one, but you are not able to declare a Short, so, more than "you can't combine", I would say they are not compatible, so this combo is useless!

[DoubleSkulls]

To clarify my position, I don't believe Strong Arm should combine with Dump Off, but I don't see that the rules indicate that.

Strong Arm's description seems pretty clear that it reduces range by one band. The treated as is purely example and therefore carries less weight than the main text.

Given the way in which you have to read most GW rules I'd say the current description in the rules does not back up Chet's point. Dump Off is only allowed for quick passes, but short passes are reduced to quick passes by strong arm.

I can't see this being too much of a game breaker. Dump Offs are quite difficult to make anyway and any competent player will set up interceptions and TZ's on receivers to further reduce the chance, especially if an out of turn TD is possible.

I'll continue to play that they aren't allowed to combine but the LRB really needs this clarifying.

Ian

[Korhil]

Getting back to the orignal question...

Your Scaven Thrower is 7337 Pass, Sure Hands, Dump-Off, Accurate. (Right?)
So on a double roll take NOS... no question about it... now he doesnt even need a cage arround him... just a Gutter Runner within Quick Pass Range that is supported so when they Blitz him he only has to make a 2+ Pass with his Pass Skill Re-Roll.

AFAIK Dump-Off if thrown accurately and caught counts as a Pass Completion and you get the SPP for it. So after Dumping-Off alot you'll get your next skill which will be 'Safe Throw'. After that the players development is complete for his purpose. (Which is a good thing too, cause he'll need 76SPP total (or 25SPP more from his 51SPP) to level again. Hopefully he doesnt age

In an Elf Team Id make one of the Throwers essentially the same, but there isnt any need to get Accurate, since you throw Quick Passes on a 2+ with Pass Re-Roll anyway. So for his 4th Skill you'd get Sure Hands to save on Re-Rolls.

---Korhil

[CauCauCau]

I never really thought about Nerves of Steel and Dumpoff together. It's a natural pair though. I'm just starting with an Ork team and I'm now thinking of going the dump-off, accurate and hopefully Nerves of Steel route if my throwers ever get enough SPPs.

Nathan

[Longshot]

you cant combine Dump-off and Strong Arm.

CauCauCau, Nerves of steel must be the second skill for a Thrower with Dump-off

[neverdodge]

not really the topic subject, but i assume the same way you can t use strong arm to throw a long pass under bilzzard right ?

[Longshot]

No you cant cos under blizzard: you are able to throw only quick and shortpass. So this is the same problem, same logic, same solution: you can't do it this way.

[Sushé Wakka]

Well, I don't want to sound rough or offensive (if I do, it is because of my bad english, and I apologize if I do sound rough).
I think that you are negating Strong Arm advantages over accurate and turning it into the worst trait around. As you put it, accurate is better and easier to get (this is treated on another forum, so I won't expand on it) than Strong Arm.
My league Co-commish (yes, we're two league commissoners) asked me "Why is Strong arm better than accurate? Accurate always gets a +1, but Strong Arm doesn't do it in quick range".
My answer was "Well, I suppose it's a Trait because it allows you to throw the ball up to long pass range during a blizzard (since with Strong arm it is considered a short pass), and you can also dump-off up to short pass range (since it is considered a quick pass)".
However, you're posting that the only advantages that Strong Arm offers over Accurate do not exist.
I still don't see why combining dump-off and Strong arm is beardy. Actually, it seems quite a nice combo for a running thrower, and makes Strong Arm worth the boubles you have to roll to get it.
And even better, allowing this comboo would help to make Pass Block a more interesting skill, and so helping another "underrated" skill, Safe Throw, to be picked up more often.
You'll see a similar reply in the "Strong arm vs accurate" topic, since they're related.

[Grumbledook]

Thats fine if you want to use house rules for that, but as the rules are written strong arm can't be used in a blizzard to increase the range or combined in the same manner with dump off.

[Snew]

I don't see that in the rules Grumbledook. It's an interpretation of the intent of the rules. Difficult to differentiate between the two, I know. I happen to agree with Sushe's ruling.

[Grumbledook]

Well the trait reduces the band by one range. You can't reduce a long throw to a short throw if your not allowed to throw a long pass. I thought this was cleared up with an offical answer somewhere a while ago, might br wrong though.