True Running Team, Take 2: The Bretonnians

[Teabag]

Hey guys,

I'm still obsessing over the whole running team (i.e. a team with no access to Passing or Agility skills) thing. But this time I though I would approach it from a different angle by making it a Bretonnian team. Let me know what you think.

Qty Position MA ST AG AV Skills & Traits (Skill Access) Cost
0-12 Peasants 6 3 3 7 None (General) 40,000 gp
0-2 Flagellants 7 3 2 7 Frenzy, Dauntless (General) 80,000 gp
0-4 Squires 7 3 3 8 Strip Ball (General, Strength) 90,000 gp
0-4 Knights 7 3 3 8 Block, Sure Hands (General, Strength) 110,000 gp

0-1 Treeman 2 6 1 10 Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Take Root, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate (General, Strength) 120,000 gp

Team Re-Roll Cost: 60,000 gp.

Notes on Team Design
This team fits all the guidelines found on www.midgardbb.com (http://www.blood-bowl.net/BloodBowlPlayers.html) and is a great running team. They’re not the fastest out there but they’re faster than most Human teams on average. They have no great ST or AG players. No player has access to Passing or Agility skills, so unless you roll doubles, you have to develop this team either as a bashy team or a running team (which is the intention).

The idea of this team is for the Knights to get the ball (hence Sure Hands) and run with it (hence MA7) to score touchdowns (the Bretonnian Knights are egotists after all), while the Squires run with them (hence similar MA7) and take all the hits for them (I was tempted to give them Guard but decided against it). The Flagellants are just nutters who try to take out the opposition (hence the Frenzy and Dauntless traits) and don’t care about dodging or staying away from opposing players (hence AG2). The Peasants just fill in the squad but have poor quality equipment (hence AV7).

That’s the offence, of course. If defending, the Knights are intended to go on the LoS and hold their own while the Squires go after the ballcarrier (hence the Strip Ball skill).

I made the Team Re-Rolls a little more expensive due to the friction between the peasants and knights and the insane nature of the flagellants.

Notes on Player Design
Knights are warriors usually, so I gave them the Block skill too. If a lot of people don’t like this, then I’ll drop it. This will make them cheaper too, so I’ll be happy to drop it. It just seemed to fit their character background.

Peasants actually only cost 30,000 gp but I upped their price to 40,000 gp. They are a little better than Skeletons or Zombies after all (higher MA and higher AG even with similar AV and no Regeneration trait) and are exactly the same as Thralls on the Vampires team.

I also upped the cost of the Treeman, simply because I felt it would be a rarer occurrence for a Treeman to play for Bretonnia than Wood Elves and/or Halflings. Bear in mind that Treemen should really cost 150,000 gp anyway.

Remember that the cost formula is not perfect. For example, Dark Elf Blitzers should cost 120,000 gp but only cost 100,000 gp. Witch Elves should cost 140,000 gp and not the actual cost of 110,000 gp.

A Starting Line-Up
2 Knights (220,000 gp)
2 Squires (180,000 gp)
1 Flagellant (80,000 gp)
8 Peasants (320,000 gp)
2 Team Re-Rolls (120,000 gp)
8 Fan Factor (80,000 gp)

[m0nty_au]

Get rid of the Squires and the Treeman. With that roster you don't need to put any peasants at all on the field. With all 11 positionals the combined cost is 1180k... ridiculously overpowered.

[Teabag]

Get rid of the Squires and the Treeman. With that roster you don't need to put any peasants at all on the field. With all 11 positionals the combined cost is 1180k... ridiculously overpowered.

Actually it’s only 1080k (weak excuse #1). And that’s still cheaper than the Ogre team (weak excuse #2). And only 40k higher than the Orc team, which admittedly is way overpowered (weak excuse #3). And only 150K or thereabouts above the Human or Wood Elf teams (weak excuse #4).

Okay, I’ve run out of weak excuses.

I take your point. Dammit, I thought I had it then! I did everything by the book (literally) and thought it was perfect! Oh well…

So how about dropping the number of Knights from 0-4 to 0-2? That will bring the positional players’ combined cost down to 860k which is much more reasonable (still high, but around fifth highest and nearing average). Still too high? I don’t want to lose the Squires because that’s the point of the team. The Flagellants could go however. That would bring the combined cost down to 700 (now fourteenth and quite cheap!).

Okay, so drop the Flagellents, lower the Treeman cost back to normal, keep the Knights at 0-4 but lose the Sure Hands skill (lowering their cost to 100k). That leaves us with:

Qty Position MA ST AG AV Skills & Traits (Skill Access) Cost
0-12 Peasants 6 3 3 7 None (General) 40,000 gp
0-4 Squires 7 3 3 8 Strip Ball (General, Strength) 90,000 gp
0-4 Knights 7 3 3 8 Block (General, Strength) 100,000 gp

0-1 Treeman 2 6 1 10 Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Take Root, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate (General, Strength) 110,000 gp

And the combined cost of the positional players is now 870, which isn’t bad at all.

[m0nty_au]

First, forget the damn Treeman. Ain't gonna happen. Maybe replace it with an Ogre. Take away Strength skill access from the Squires. Replace Strip Ball with Sure Hands. Then you've got a team.

[IronAge_Man]

I like the Flagellants. Without them, the team has little character. I always considered that Knights could have Leader - it helps to differentiate them from regular human blitzers. That's too many positionals, though, yet the team would be weak with 0-2 Knights...I need coffee

[Teabag]

First, forget the damn Treeman. Ain't gonna happen. Maybe replace it with an Ogre. Take away Strength skill access from the Squires. Replace Strip Ball with Sure Hands. Then you've got a team.

No, no, no. The idea is that the Knights pick up the ball and score while the Squires run with them and protect them. Check out the other True Running Thread if you're not sure what I mean.

So Knights have to have Sure Hands. The Squires could lose Strip Ball however. The Squires cannot have Sure Hands because they're not supposed to get their hands on the ball. And if they did, who would they pass it to? The Knights, who no longer have Sure Hands, and so would be more likely to drop the damn thing during the hand-off.

As far as the Treeman/Ogre thing is concerned. An Ogre is not likely to be employed by hoity-toity Bretonnian knights (and the BBRC are insistent on keeping the number of teams who can have Ogres down). However, Bretonnians are very in tune with nature (read the WFB army book if you don't believe me) and Lorien (the forest home of the Wood Elves borders their nation. Therefore a Treeman makes much more sense than an Ogre.

[Teabag]

I like the Flagellants. Without them, the team has little character. I always considered that Knights could have Leader - it helps to differentiate them from regular human blitzers. That's too many positionals, though, yet the team would be weak with 0-2 Knights...I need coffee

Thanks IronAge_Man. That cheered me up no end. I kinda liked the Flagellants too but looking at them again, maybe they're more an Empire thing than a Bretonnian thing. Rename them Battle Priests, perhaps? I don't know.

I didn't want to give the Knights Leader, as that would push their cost up unless they lost Block, which I really didn't want them to.

[leblanc13]

Dropping the flagellants was probably a good idea as I see them as more of an empire thing anyway.

I like the last list that you came up with better than the first one. But, I agree with the changes that Monty suggests.

[leblanc13]

I can also see the Brettonians being quintessential passers. They are the glory hogs of their realm and I could easily see them in the prima-donna quarterback role. Acting as a leader on the field is what they would do best.

If you want a pure running team Chaos fits all of your requirements. They have no one with pass or agility access and pretty much need to develop a running game as they have no one to fill in the fast catcher role.

[m0nty_au]

The reason I wanted to give the squires Sure Hands is because your knights didn't have it according to your last amendment, and for a running team it is essential. Also, isn't if fluffy for the knights to barge around doing the heavy work being the heroes while the squires carry all their equipment (like the ball) trailing behind them?

The Flagellants are broken because they have two double-roll skills to start with, which makes them very powerful. Trees on a human roster are also silly... you're giving a "running" team the slowest Big Guy in the book? Not having any big guy access at all might be a good way to justify the Flagellants, kinda like the Dorfs getting Troll Slayers. You certainly can't have both. Mind you, if you want Flagellants and Squires, you'd probably only get 0-2 of both.

[David Bergkvist]

Here's my bretonnian team:

Code: Select all

0-12 Peasant  40  6 3 3 7  G  -
0-2  Squire   70  8 3 3 7  GP Sure Hands
0-6  Knight   100 6 3 3 9  GS Block, Dauntless

Note that they don't have a big guy (the snobbish bretonnian knights wouldn't stand playing on the same team as a filthy ogre).

Yes, they have passing skills, but so does dwarfs.

Yes, they have six players with dauntless, but that only means they're wasting a lot of money as dauntless can only be used against ST 4+ opponents, which opposing teams generally don't have six of.

Yes, it breaks the team building rule that says that the total cost of players that cost 100.000 or more cannot be higher than 450.000, but so does many other teams.

[Ithilkir]

/me mutters something about Blood Bowl not being based on WHFB

[leblanc13]

If you want to make a team based on WFB then you should try to tailor that list to fit within the fluff of the army. If you are just building a human team then you can do whatever you want.

[Hache]

There is a bretonnian team on www.francebloodbowl.com :

Code: Select all

0-12 peasant 6 3 3 7 none (general) 40000
0-4 knight 6 3 3 9 block (general, strength) 80000
0-2 wandering knight 7 3 3 8 dauntless (general, strength) 90000
0-2 graal knight 5 4 3 9 mighty blow (general, strength) 120000

reroll 60000
no big guy
cannot foul

This is more a bashy team than a running team, but it was only for information.


As for this topic, I would only make few changes to Teabag team : remove 2 squires, the treeman (no big guy for this team), and knights cannot foul.

Code: Select all

0-12 Peasants 6 3 3 7 None (General) 40,000 gp
0-2 Flagellants 7 3 2 7 Frenzy, Dauntless (General) 80,000 gp
0-2 Squires 7 3 3 8 Strip Ball (General, Strength) 90,000 gp
0-4 Knights 7 3 3 8 Block, Sure Hands (General, Strength) 110,000 gp 

reroll 60000
no big guy
knights cannot foul

Hache

[plasmoid]

Hi Teabag,
if you remove the treeman, and either go with 0-2 of both flagellants and squires, or 0-4 squires and 0 flagellants, then I think this looks pretty nice.
Martin