Help wanted for High Elves

Count Zappa · Post by **Count Zappa** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:05 am

Folks,

My friends and I have a long-running league which uses 3rd edition rules and a liberal sprinkling of house rules.

One team that's been underpowered since the beginning has been the High Elf race.

We're trying to figure out what to do to balance the scales.

Do we up the number of Lion Warriors or Dragon Warriors to 4? Do we add the Maiden Warriors from that compendium several years back?

I went to the GW site to see if there's something in the High Elf army lists which would fit the feel of the High Elf BB team. Nothing. Wood Elves get Treemen and Dryads for Fantasy Battle, but there's no such added colour for the High Elves which would make a natural addition for a BB team.

Suggestions? Observations?

KLK · Post by **KLK** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:24 am

well, the CBBL already use 4 Lion Warriors.

also, as a big guy, we allow a young dragon: 6/5/2/9. bone head, prehensile tail, sure feet, razor fangs/ GEN, ST. 150K

we already test the g¿dragon, and fits quite good.

we have a powerful league, and we also allow 3 dragon warriors, but before allow it in your league, you must know that all our teams have special players.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:38 am

Count Zappa wrote:One team that's been underpowered since the beginning has been the High Elf race.

I've played HE a lot, and can't really see the case for them being underpowered. But if you want to give them something extra, an easy way would be to give AV8 to their catchers and/or AV9 to the blitzers.

The solution you need depends on the problem you've encountered though. I've supposed they get beaten up a lot.

I do think the real problem is with learning the tactics to play them though.

BadMrMojo · Post by **BadMrMojo** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:59 am

Count Zappa wrote:...Do we up the number of Lion Warriors or Dragon Warriors to 4? Do we add the Maiden Warriors from that compendium several years back?...

They've had 4 Lion Warriors since LRB 1.0, I think.

What rules are you using?

One option (if you want house rules...) is to give all the HEs -1 MA and +1 AV. Someone's suggested this in the past (sorry, I forget who it was) and it sounds like it should make them different enough to be interesting without making them too much more powerful.

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:58 pm

why not make them better by not using 3rd ed rules? vault rules!

if you ignore the kak star they can develop into best team around. if you play 3rd ed with no changes give diving tackle to every player. get two leap stripball block catchers and kick some butt. the lack of star players results in never losing star player points; and will skill up every player

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:32 am

I also think using 3rd editon may be your problem. I would stay far away from the maiden warriors. Best thing to do is bump Dragon Warriors to 4

Count Zappa · Post by **Count Zappa** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:39 am

In our league, making the switch from 3rd edition rules would be a serious pain. It's been quite a feat getting everyone to learn those rules and the extensive house rules we have.

Making a shift to the LRB is unrealistic. Some of the changes wouldn't go over well with the coaches.

So, 3rd edition will stay... I just need to balance the High Elves somehow.

What was the problem with the Maiden Warriors? Too Fast?

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:30 pm

current rules put total catchers up to 4. this balances a bit better becuase they are kak compared to WE or skaven at early levels.

But you may have missed the point (or we have not said it) that elf teams are amazing post 250tr. Just keep playing and spread star player points so each player gets three skills. they are brillant in that environment.

My team hit 250tr and BECAUSE they dont have an stars in team al continued to develop. i cant remeber but loads of TD's were missed on human and orc teams becasue the stars are peaked. i would axe the prince if you have him and just game on. must admit monsters a nightmare so make sure you have a couple of dauntless players.

If you continue with pure 3rd ed get diving tackle on as many players as possible. it will give you rude defensive ability when you dont have the ball. i did this with 10 lineman 2blitzers and 2 catcher, 2 throwers, never had extra catcher ability and my team was the best in league by miles.

Frankenstein · Post by **Frankenstein** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:46 pm

For the record, I'm the coach Zappa's refering to.

My HE are currently rated at 335 and compared to the other teams out there, they still seem to be lacking something. They aren't all bad, but pound for pound, they are outclassed by most other teams. The move to 4 catchers seems OK on the surface but when you factor in that the other teams that have 4 catchers all seem to have 2 strength, doesn't giving the HE 4 three strength catchers unbalance things a bit? I know they aren't suppose to hit like the Undead (I also coach Undead, Necromantic and Human, by the way) and I don't want them to. It's just with the WE and DE access to the War Dancers and Witch Elves, it seems to me that the 2 Dragon Warriors are outclassed (look at the skills and the number of allowable position players) I don't think they need a major overhaul, just a little "tweak" as it were. I agree that the Prince is pretty useless and seeing as everyone else in our league has star players, I'm pretty much gonna go along with the status quoe on that as well.

It may be the skill set that I have on the players, it may be the way I play them or it may be that my 6 AG thrower won't pick up the f**king ball (long story, but he's famous for the ol' double 1's...). As Zappa said, we're just looking for idea's. Most here seem to think that the HE are balanced. If that's the case, I guess I'll just plug along and see how it goes.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:51 pm

Looking over the whole thing, you're asking a bunch of (mostly) LRB players to give opinions on balancing your 3rd edition league. There are some real problems with this. The most notable is that 3rd edition leagues weren't meant to perpetually run. Teams with 300+ ratings are extremely difficult to balance, and the rules changes and strategies deployed in our respective versions are significantly different.

Another long term problem your league might have is balancing out some of the new rosters in a 3rd edition environment. I'm not sure how Necros or especially Khemri are going to do in a 3rd edition setting.

Hernia Boy · Post by **Hernia Boy** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:39 pm

I say bumping up the number of Dragon Warriors to four would be the way to go. Then again, I belong to that very league, so anything we can do to hamper the High Elves is el dandy with me. Just kidding Franky

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:48 am

no you are trying to get round the star players with st6+ and most teams have st4 hero's. think you need to look at dauntless (years ago) and develop your team into a defensive side.

Really if your team has got some good skills should be able to fry most other teams. If you have picked 10lineman with shadow, pass block, sure hands just sack them and get team back in shape.

1 linemean -kick, block (with st4 catchers- whicg are really ma8 blitzers! you can kick and give teams fitts)

3 lineman - dauntless, block , dodge (or diving tackle) when you roll choose

6 lineman block, diving tackle, dodge

1 lineman - dirty player, pro, mighty blow (this guys kills

)

2 throwers, 1- accurate, sure hands, safe throw, strong arm
1- sure hands, block, dodge, (defense)

2 blitzers - dodge, leap, strip ball, tackle (any order)

2 catchers - dodge, block, leap, strip ball

Get to 300 tr and you will able to bust an ogre team with 4morgs. dont forget many 'stars' dont have block, none have tackle. Just use blodge.

ps if you have played for ten years solid its a bit late to ask for a house rule! sorry but it is too fixed. as posted above rules just dont work for ANY teams over 225 tr.

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:49 pm

Indeed - I have had a high elf team rated 300+

It was pants...

HE teams can't compete at this level - not enough strength and not compensated by speed...

Best bet - don't get to that level

but if you want to you will struggle, unless you allow high elves to have ogres.. That works

Scipio_Publius · Post by **Scipio_Publius** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:49 pm

I like the idea of a BG.

I played in several leagues with the maidens and they didn't really add anything besides yet another catcher.

I think HE need a 0-1 Swordman w/ 2Hsword secret weapon (something akin to poison dagger)

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:13 am

Hi all,
the usual:
We've changed the high elf team with MA-1 and AV+1 on all positions.
It is slow allright, but the high AV means that it is the only elf team that can survive against bashy teams and still have 11 players for second half.

IMO, it lets them compete at higher TR, when bashy teams have developed their "bash".
Martin

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Help wanted for High Elves

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