Newbie with Dwarf team needs advice.

jimmy944 · Post by **jimmy944** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:55 pm

Greetings one and all!

I am new, both to bloodbowl and to this forum and was wondering if i could getsome advice about a my chosen first team, the dwarfs. Originally it was a choice between the short ones or skaven and I decided I was less likely to end up as a 2D bloody mess with the dwarfs. I have played one non-league game vs a starting amazon team and lost 2-1

My starting roster for an upcomming 1,000,000gps league is as follows:

1 Slayer
2 Runners
1 Blitzer
8 Longbeards
2 Re-rolls
3 Fan factor

While the FF appears to be a bit low, the highest FF in the league is 5 (gobbos) with 3-4 being the averge. The teams I will be up against are: 1 necro, 1 skaven, 2 orc, 1 amazon, 1 gobbo, 1 norse. Any roster/teambuilding/tactical advice will be most greatfully received.

Cheers, jimmy

Phipstar · Post by **Phipstar** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:55 am

welcome,
you will not need 12 players at the beginning, start better with higher ff and more rr, i would recommend the following:
6 longbeards (420k)
2 blitzers (160k)
1 runners (80k)
2 trollslayers (180k)
2 rr (80k)
8 ff

Melifaxis · Post by **Melifaxis** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:26 am

FF drives revenues. You will crush your opponents if you have a high FF and they stay with 3-4.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:28 am

Hi there!

Dwarves are tricky to play, expect to lose some matches. Skaven are a bit tricky too though, and at least you won't lose a lot of players.

For a new player, I'd suggest

6 longbeards (420k)
2 blitzers (160k)
2 runners (160k)
1 trollslayer (90k)
3 rr (120k)
5 ff

Troll Slayers are a bit difficult to use properly because of Frenzy, and Longbeards due to low MA. Thus, max out on the other positions. Low FF is OK, you haven't got that much left to buy anyway, and the 3rd RR saves you 40k.

Main problem is to learn how to deal with balls in your backfield - you need two runners to cover it all: pick up the ball quickly and form a cage.

Second problem is getting your cage rolling. You'll learn in time

Don't get into the bad habit of waiting for casualities and KO:s giving you the matches!

Focus on getting the ball forward in a good pace - no panic, but no lazyness... when you get to the quarter finals, start going for the steady 2-1 wins - but not before that!

First buy is an apo, no matter what happens. Next a 12th player: I'd suggest a Longbeard since they're easier to use than Troll Slayers. After that a 13th player and the 4th & 5th RR. Then you're pretty much done with the shopping

Skills: Guard, always Guard. Stand Firm on doubles. Blitzers and Runners like Dodge on doubles - Block/Dodge/Sure Hands makes for a good ballcarrier. At least one runner has to become a thrower or you'll get a really hard time when the opponents starts getting Kick...

I've played Dwarfs through some 60 matches, and I'd say this is a solid advice for a new coach

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:42 am

Melifaxis wrote:FF drives revenues. You will crush your opponents if you have a high FF and they stay with 3-4.

This really is too much of a generalization. It'll take him some 11 matches or so to just get his money back, if the alternative is investing in RRs. The league might very well be finished by then.

Besides, dwarves can't use cash as efficiently as other teams.

The 'max out FF' strategy is healthy when it comes to limiting positional players on starting rosters, but in many rosters another RR is a better choice then high FF.

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:51 am

Welcome, I dont really play dwarves much so I will leave my silly advice in my head for this one

jimmy944 · Post by **jimmy944** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:20 pm

Thanks guys, will have a go w/o the 12th player. the last pre-league "friendly" is tomorrow night vs orcs. Sshud be good fun, esp if i can nail the little gobbos early on.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:45 pm

Phipstar wrote:welcome,
you will not need 12 players at the beginning, start better with higher ff and more rr, i would recommend the following:
6 longbeards (420k)
2 blitzers (160k)
1 runners (80k)
2 trollslayers (180k)
2 rr (80k)
8 ff

This would be my team. A good option in your league might be to buy an APO and take 3ff to start with in stead of 8.

Frenzy means your Slayers may not have to dodge much. Use them to move away players obstructing access to ball carriers and use dauntless to floor big guys.

Blitzers have AG3 and may also be used to carry the ball/score although their movement may mean they're too slow.

Use blitzers and runner to hunt the ball while its still on your opponents half. Try to keep your defense tight in the meantime.

Don't worry about RR because for Dwarfs they're cheap.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: DON'T DODGE! at least minimise it a dodge action is always the last in a dwarf turn. Unless the dodge is really critical, but even then its your last resource. Even with AG3 players.

Brooster888 · Post by **Brooster888** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:21 pm

jimmy944 wrote:Thanks guys, will have a go w/o the 12th player. the last pre-league "friendly" is tomorrow night vs orcs.

Good luck even though the game is probably long over. Would like to know how you did against the Orc's as i have this nervous twitch when i see a WofG (Wall of Green). I have Hummies and am still recovering. Check out the Team Diaries and Nadgers postings to see why....

Let us know how you got on.

jimmy944 · Post by **jimmy944** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:48 pm

.Will do matey, meant tue night so will post a match review tomoz evenin

@ Duke Jan and Phipstar

Thank you for the roster idea, I had considered somethin very similar but the idea of havin no sub does worry me especially as i seem to have a propensity for getting my boys flattened at every opportunity (2 casualities last game vs AMAZONS

). As such i may have to settle with 4 positional players and get a sub.

BTW does anyone know where I can read up on the "cage/box" I am ok at forming one but I cant seem to get the b*gger to go anywhere

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:18 am

jimmy944 wrote: BTW does anyone know where I can read up on the "cage/box" I am ok at forming one but I cant seem to get the b*gger to go anywhere

This is one of the tricky thing with BB, especially if you play against an experienced opponent. You must try to find the weak spots in the defense, often rolling the cage a bit to the left or right.

A good rule of thumb is to always push opponents - whether knocked over or not - into several of you TZs. That way they can't give assists without dodging out or using the blitz.

Getting the cage rolling is a lot about using the momentum from your knocking down the LOS. If you get all of them down, including the blitz, you're 11 vs 7 standing players after your first turn. Keep it that way!

The opponents tries to stand up, and then dodge away or fight back. You've got to keep laying several of them on the ground each turn. That means getting them in your TZs without giving them more than a few 2D blocks at you. It's not easy!

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:45 am

MickeX wrote:
Skills: Guard, always Guard. Stand Firm on doubles. Blitzers and Runners like Dodge on doubles - Block/Dodge/Sure Hands makes for a good ballcarrier. At least one runner has to become a thrower or you'll get a really hard time when the opponents starts getting Kick...

Mighty Blow is a good option as well. It really pays off, and with the extra SPP you get from the casualties, you can take Guard later.

I usually go for the max position players, so 2 runners, 2 blitzer, and 2 Troll Slayers. The rest is easy to fill in. Most players have Block, and the ball handlers have Sure hands, so no need to go overboard on re-rolls.

Troll Slayers might be a bit of a puzzle sometimes with their frenzy, (You should try Norse for a real mind boggler) but just take your time to figure out the best blocks and you'll be fine. Always try to push opposing players off the pitch with the troll slayers,(Pow and pushback? choose Pushback if you can get the player off after frenzying)

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:19 pm

Orin wrote:
MickeX wrote: Skills: Guard, always Guard.
Mighty Blow is a good option as well. It really pays off, and with the extra SPP you get from the casualties, you can take Guard later.

The main reason I don't recommend MB to a new player is that it makes you learn a lot less from your games.

But I don't think the MB-route is a very good choice either way. Many players confuse the fact that
a) some matches are handed to you through cas
with the dubious conclusion that
b) specializing at getting cas will be an efficient strategy.

Played correctly, the wall of Guard will win you more matches than a lot of MB. It makes you a lot less dependent on decent dice rolling.

(Mighty Blow is a good choice for a Troll Slayer in the beginning though, since you want to make the most out of your single blitz when the oppponents have dodged away.)

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:59 pm

I disagree; You could also argue that Guard makes you learn less, since you don't need to think about assists and counter assists as much. Want a safe cage? just chuck in someone with guard and there you are.

The truth is that the way for a Longbeard to get SPP is through Casualties and MVPs. They'll get Mighty Blow - Guard a lot quicker than Guard - Mighty Blow.

While Dwarves are hardly able to specialise in making casualties (That's Chaos' forte), getting one or two players out of the game in the starting turns can really make all the difference.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take Guard at all, maybe just mix it a bit, give the half the Longbeards Guard, the other half MB and see how it works out.

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:40 pm

When it comes to the guard or MB first question (btw just the same for chaos dwarves), I rather prefer guard over MB.

Agreed, MB will make you advance faster. But, you need 5 five guarders at minimum (assuming you have all 6 positoins). Maybe it is just me, but as long as not every lb on pitch has guard I seem to have problems with the cage rolling. So, MB will always be second skill on the buggers for me.