Skaven concern...

[nobbynobbs]

Hello all,
Last night I played my second game with my Skaven team, which was 12 models from the Boxset plus Hakflem and a Rat Ogre, against my friends new Dwarf team, (Boxset plus Deathroller).
By the end of the match, I had 7 rats in Dead/Injured, and 3 KO'd!!

This has got me worried. The dude at our local GW has sounded us out about joining a league, which we're well up for, obviously.
But if this happens in a league game I'm in trouble, aren't I? I won't be able to replace that many rats after a game, which would then surely lead to ongoing trouble...

What am I doing wrong? I dodged out of TZ's when I could, but got mullered anyway!! I've got a nice Skaven Grey Seer which I'm painting up as an Apoth, which will help a little, but...

Help!! How do I cope in League play? I know I won't play dwarves every match, but i'm sure Orcses and the like will be more than capable of similar damage..

Any advice gratefully received,
Regards Craig.

[martynq]

Sounds fairly standard to be honest... dwarves are a rather bashy team while skaven are a rather fragile team. Typically you will suffer a lot of casualties against them. In a long term league you will want high FF and an apothecary.

Martyn

[Melifaxis]

Try a search for skaven under the strategy and tactics section. There's a really good guide in there.

A Rat Ogre will help minimize the bashy ones. Just make sure you have as few rats in contact with dwarfs at the end of each turn as possible.

[Orin]

A friend of mine plays the most aggressive Skaven you've ever seen! His philosophy is: Every Skaven that gets sent off for fouling can't get hurt anymore!

I usually try to get all the models for the teams I'm playing. It's usually not too expensive to buy an extra blitzer or an extra catcher.

Maybe dodging away from dwarves isn't such a good idea. At least when you block them you have the chance of injuring a dwarf. If you Dodge, the only ones taking risks are the furry friends. And he'll just follow up with the dwarves and you can dodge away from those bearded bastards again. This is definitely a loosing cycle.

Taking out a DeathRoller shouldn't really be a problem, should it? If it falls over, it's out of the game.

And remember you probably won't just be playing Dwarves in your league. You'll go up against Khemri, Chaos, Chaos Dwarves, and Orcs as well.

PS: nice nickname

[Joemanji]

Yeah, you'll find all AV 7 teams suffer in this way. Sounds like the game you had was a bit extreme though. I'm sure it's not usually that bad!

[Munkey]

I think Skaven probably suffer the most casulties as they lack the Agility to dodge away easily and the ST or skills to fight back. Sounds like you had a rough game but I think the key to Skaven is to remember that linemen are cheap and not to worry too much when they die.

[Joemanji]

I think the key to Skaven is to remember that linemen are cheap and not to worry too much when they die.

Everyone says that, but a Skaven lineman is 2.5 times more likely to suffer a casualty than a Dwarf Longbeard. At 70k though, a Longbeard is only 1.4 times more expensive to replace than a Skaven lino. The maths still favours the high AV teams. Not to mention Orc linemen, who cost the same!!

Random discussion point for the day.

[Jimmy_pop]

I think that the try to dodge out of TZ is a good tactis with skavens... I has worked witht the skaven teams that I have played agains, never played skavens myself but still it seems to work out fine! and a Rat gre kan diliver more pain that most players!

/Jimmy

[Lord Rodney]

i think that you need to utilise a lot of different techniques when using skaven.

in some cases it is wise to ensure that your opponent has only the bare minimum number of blocks to throw at you but do not overlook the potential to overwhelm any of his more vulnerable players which may be seperated from the main block of attack. any stragglers need to be double teamed as a good offense is the best defence.

i would personally try to avoid big mid-field pile-ups and look to just pick off strays with rat ogre or double teams.

i think the short way of saying all this is to use the skaven as they were intended....low-down, sneaky, cheating rats.

also chuck in a few good fouls per half just to keep any threatening players down.

[The Florist]

Don't dodge out of TZ's with linerats except as last actions for the turn, and only when they aren't of more use getting in the way.
Basically you will suffer a turnover every turn if you try to get your whole team away, which will most likely happen when you've moved enough rats to be out of formation. Your opponent will still be able to block a lot of your team, and he will have choice of who to blitz with who for maximum damage.
Getting killed is just something you have to deal with, the GR's make it all worth it.

And check out Narkotic's Skaven guide, it's a beautiful piece of work. Helped me survive my first games.

Edit: Oh, and assuming assists are equal and there's no MB involved, you have the same chance of success and the same risk of getting hurt trying to block a longbeard away from you as you do dodging. Plus you get to decide where he goes and might knock him down.

[narkotic]

Thanks

(ignore everything I written about Rat Ogres though, it was for the old WA)

[darthvincor]

And as Lord Rodney said: offense is the best defense.
I myself play with bashy teams all the time and rely heavily on blocking the opponent. What frustrates me the most when playing against fragile teams is when they strike back hard and perform a lot of risky 1 on 1 blocks. And if it works, half my team is busy getting up every turn.
And a longbeard getting up is not likely to do any damage.

And another tip is to keep you gutter runners far away from players with tackle. I personally get a great deal of joy blocking a block+dodge player who thinks he's pretty invincible, until he meets a tackle player.