Our newest 3-Tier-Handicap Table. Any comments?

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

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narkotic
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Our newest 3-Tier-Handicap Table. Any comments?

Post by narkotic »

In our league (closed, fixed schedule) we are using a 3-tier-handicap table since two seasons and after tweaking, this is the latest result. Based on Milo's table and nicked some ideas from Plasmoid's one. Problem was to have similar effective results on every table and have results that shouldn't run the risk of not being effective against one particular team (like virus against non-niggling teams etc).

Any comments, criticism or ideas for improvement are welcome.

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Calculate the difference between the two team ratings. That difference is the underdog’s Handicap Points. They may spend the points on any of the following tables at the start of the match. These rules replace the handicap system of the LRB. Re-roll any duplicate results. You can chose the order of effects after you have rolled all results.

 

Good Karma (Each roll on this table costs 10 points of Handicap)

D12 Result
 
1 BRIBE THE REF: You may set up 12 players on the field once during the match. If you have only 11 or fewer players at the start of the match you may re-roll this result.
 
2 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only
 
3 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One player is really psyched for this week’s match, and has been working very hard preparing for it. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player Table.
 
4 BRIBE THE ANNOUNCERS: You receive your MVP award before the match. If the additional SPPs are enough to give the player a new skill then generate it immediately. You don’t get a second MVP at the end of the match.
 
5 SPONSORSHIP DEAL: Your team is sponsored by Bloodweiser and receives an extra D3x10,000 gps after the match!
 
6 PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game. If there should be a penalty shoot-out at the end of the match, you may add +1 to your dice roll.
 
7 SCUTT’S SCROLL OF WEATHER MAGIC: You have tricked a gullible Wizard into parting with a useful scroll. Once per game, after the Kick-Off result has been resolved, you can select a weather result – the weather will immediately change to that result and remain there until a Weather Change kickoff roll is made.
 
8 TEAM ANTHEM: Increase your FF by D3+1 or to the amount of your opponent’s FF (whichever is less). This increase is for this match only.
 
9 GREASED SHOES: Pick a player on the opposing team. You’ve paid someone to grease the bottom of their shoes and their agility is reduced to 1 until a touch down is scored or the half ends.
 
10 EGGHEAD CONVENTION: A local inventor’s guild is sponsoring a convention in the city today.  Several of the attendees are big fans of your team, and are willing to assist your team in today’s match.  With their aid, your team will automatically win any Brilliant Coaching results on the Kick-off Table.
 
11 KNUCKLEDUSTERS: A player of your choice in your team counts as having Mighty Blow for this match only.
 
12 THAT BABE’S GOT TALENT! Your team visits the local tavern the night before the game. One of the exotic dancers displays her, umm, ‘talents,’ and your players leave her a generous tip. She and a few friends decide to hang out with your team for the day. You automatically win any Cheering Fans results on the Kick-off Table.
 

Dirty Tricks & Random Events (Each roll on this table costs 25 points of Handicap)

D12 Result
 
1 BAD PRESS: Libelous stories you have spread cut the opposing team’s Fan Factor in half (rounding up) or reduce it to your FF-1 (whatever is less) The FF loss applies for this match only.
 
2 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses half of its TRRs rounded down for this match only. That team keeps at least 1 re-roll.
 
3 BIASED REFEREE: The opposing team count as being under the eyes of the referee for the whole match (ie, all fouls will be spotted on a 4+).  Your team can still be under the eyes of the referee as well.
 
4 THAT BOY’S GOT TALENT In your last match you spotted a talented fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. Add one player at any position to your roster for this match only. The player leaves the roster when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to a match in this fashion.
 
5 SMELLING SALTS: You make all rolls to move a player from the Knocked Out box to the Reserves box on a roll of 2 or better for this match.
 
6 NEWS FEATURE: The big cabalvision networks produce a special news feature about your team of plucky underdogs and their chances in the upcoming match. The extra revenue this generates will allow you to roll 2D6 at the end of the game for your match winnings. Add +1 on your FF roll after the match.
 
7 IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?: Your team has secured the service of an extra apothecary for this match only.
 
8 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has been out all night on a bender, and isn’t really ready for the game. He may not use any TRRs and suffers from the Bonehead rule for this match only.
 
9 IRON MAN: One player on your team (your choice) is determined to play hard for the whole game, no matter what the cost – in fact, he refuses to get injured! If an opposing player beats his Armour roll, he is only Stunned.
 
10 FAMILY EMERGENCY: Choose an opposing player. That player misses the match. For this match only he is replaced by a blank player of his position.
 
11 ILLEGAL DRUGS: Declare this special play immediately (now!). You may choose one player in your team and increase any one of his stats by +1 for this match only.
 
12 BUZZING! One of your players (your choice) has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today’s game. For this match only he gains the Jump Up and Frenzy traits, but will automatically fail any attempt to pick up or catch the ball.
 

Desperate Measures (Each roll on this table costs 45 points of Handicap)

D12 Result
 
1 APPEARANCE FEE: The player on the opposing team with the most Star Player points has decided that he needs to be paid money to take the field against ‘those bums.’ Roll 2D6 and multiply the result by 5,000. The result is the number of gold pieces the player must receive before he will take the field. If he isn’t paid, he’ll return home and misses the match. The opposing coach has to choose to pay the appearance fee at the start of the match.
 
2 DEADLY TACTICS: Any injury roll you make which results in a 7 (after modifications) results in a KO.
 
3 UNDER SCRUTINY: The opposing team may not Foul or use players equipped with Secret Weapons for this match. Additionally they may not use any kind of Wizard (including Halfling Master Chef and Dwarf Runesmith) or revive/rot any dead opposing player this match. The money they paid any wizard is wasted. Additionally that team will automatically lose the „Get the Ref“ Kick off result. Once during the match, before the start of the opposing team’s turn you may announce to get their coach checked by NAF security inspectors. For that turn the opposing team may not use any TRR.
 
4 RUNNING LATE: Agents in your employ manage to delay D3+1 randomly selected players on the opposing team for this inconvenient match. The players must miss the first half.
 
5 MORLEY’S REVENGE: The opposing team’s drinks have been spiked with a powerful laxative. D3 randomly selected opposing players have drunk the spiked drink, and must roll a D6 before every kick-off. On a roll of 1-3 they are otherwise engaged and may not take part in this drive. On a roll of 4-6 they may be set up normally.
 
6 DOOM & GLOOM: Due to some cunningly planted rumors and smear campaigns, the opposing team comes into the game with some serious morale issues.  Roll a D6 for each re-roll the opposing team has; for each result other than 6, the opposing team loses a re-roll for the match. Regardless of the roll that team keeps at least 1 re-roll.
 
7 IT WASN’T ME! One player of your choice of the opposing team has been getting a little rowdy in anticipation of today’s ‘cakewalk,’ and he’s been arrested! He must miss the match. The quarrels following in the locker room reduces their TRRs by 2 for this match (keeping at least 1).
 
8 I AM THE GREATEST: The three players with the most SPPs on the opposing team refuse to be on the pitch at the same time for this match only. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive. This can result in the opposing team setting up less than 11 players at a kick-off.
 
9 VIRUS: A mysterious illness breaks out among the opposing team, knocking out the unhealthiest members of the bunch. Any opposing player with a niggling injury fails their niggling injury checks on a 1-4 instead of just 1. The apothecary can’t be used to bring those players back. Repeat the niggling rolls at the start of the second half. If no players are affected, pick one player of your choice. He must miss the match. Additionally the opposing team’s players require a roll of 5+ to recover from KO instead of the normal 4+.
 
10 MICKEY FINN: An agent in your employ has spiked the pre-game punch the opposing coaching staff shares. That team can’t use any apothecary, will automatically lose the Cheering Fans & Brilliant Coaching Kick-off results, lose half of his TRRs (rounded down, keeping at least one) and can’t revive dead players during this match. Additionally you may force the opposing coach to re-roll his kick-off table roll once in the match. The second result has to be taken.
 
11 IN THE BAG! The opposing team is feeling cocky about their chances of winning this match. They can only field the 11 worst available players on their team from their reserves box, based on SPPs. This restriction ends after the first half of the match.
 
12 YOUR CHOICE:  You may select any 45 points of handicap rolls from any of the tables.
 

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Post by Vero »

Sponsorship Deal and News Feature won't help the underdog to win this game.

Family Emergency (25p) is better than Appearance Fee (45p). Don't know if that's wanted.

Doom & Gloom has the lower teh dice the better the results -roll which is not BB style.

But still worth a try :)

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

You cannot use a D12 for the table ... its gotta be:

D6
D8
D66
D88
D68
2D6

No new dice.

Galak

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Post by narkotic »

Vero wrote:Sponsorship Deal and News Feature won't help the underdog to win this game.

Family Emergency (25p) is better than Appearance Fee (45p). Don't know if that's wanted.

Doom & Gloom has the lower teh dice the better the results -roll which is not BB style.
About Sponsorship Deal: The 10 points table shouldn't increase the chance of winning anyway IMHO, it's just too small of a TR difference. Have to think about about News Feature though. Strangely, most coaches were quite happy with the D6 extra money.

Family Emergency/Appearance Fee: the first removes all skills from the best player, the second prevents the best player from playing. I don't know if high TR teams want to afford the 60K$ for leting him play.

Doom&Gloom, ok you could say 2+ rolls instead. So far, the rolls have been made by the overdog coach (which is technically wrong), so he needed to roll 6s.

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Post by narkotic »

GalakStarscraper wrote:You cannot use a D12 for the table
ok, that's a (technical ) point. Anyway, it's not a problem to convert D12 into D66 (11-13, 14-16, 21-23, 24-26 etc). It was that way before I changed it for clearing up the table a little.

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Post by m0nty_au »

A couple of small technical points to fit the table into the Vault 1.6 world (if that was your intention):

Appearance Fee in your table allows multiples of 5000 - one of the cleanups in the Vault is that only multiples of 10,000 are allowed in any rule, so that would have to be modified. D6 x 10,000 maybe?

Also, Under Scrutiny lists one of the benefits as being the opposition losing Get The Ref... the Vault 1.6 version of Get The Ref applies equally to both sides, so you'd have to either cut that bit out, or maybe say it only applies to the underdog.

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Post by narkotic »

ok, thanks for the vault-input. I'm not sure with what rulesystem we will end (I guess LRB+houserules+vault bits). For a closed league I prefer 3-T-tables over Inducements.

App. Fee is 2D6x5K$ to make the roll more average than 1D6x10K$, but the optimal solution would be 2D3x10K$ then I guess.

BTW, we will play with a league cap next season, which will make the payment of the App. Fee even harder.

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Post by Darkson »

GalakStarscraper wrote:You cannot use a D12 for the table ... its gotta be:

No new dice.
A very minor point. I can't remember the last time I actually used by D12 (in fact, can't remember where it is). I always use the D6/D6 way of rolling it.


@ Narc - how do you find the tables based on 10/25/45 compared to the 10/20/40? If a coach has a say 45 handicap to spend, what sort of choice to you see, a 2x10+25 or a straight 45?

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Here are the tables from the MBBL2.

Now as Darkson and others have told me that while the overdog is still winning quite a bit ... these are a big improvement over LRB table and significantly better for what they do to team compared to Milo's original tables.

Now I'm not saying you have to use the MBBL2 table ... but there are elements that I think are required for a good handicap table:
1) There are NO permanent effects to either team (ie no extra gold, MVPs, or players suffering injury roll).
2) All results take place immediately during the pre-game and effect the current match.

I've been told that there need to be more "apoth" type items on the MBBL2 tables ... currently we have Iron Man, Kid's Gloves, Magic Sponge, and Doctor in the House ... but I'm told there needs to be maybe 1 to 3 more.

Galak

I edited the MBBL2 to get rid of the 2 save for later Good Karma results the MBBL2 was using
===============================================

Calculate the difference between the two team ratings. That difference is the underdog’s Handicap Points. They may spend the points on any of the following tables at the start of the match. Each table is a D8 roll and any roll of a previous rolled handicap should be rerolled on the same table. Once all handicap results are rolled, the coach can then determine what order he applies them in. A coach can choose not to apply a handicap result if he desires.

Good Karma --- Handicap Points Needed: 10
1 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
2 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One player is really psyched for this week’s match, and has been working very hard preparing for it. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player Table.
3 CHIRURGEON: This physician is a master of needle and thread, and can really get the boys back on the field when they've been hurt -- even the undead! Once during the game, a player who is currently Badly Hurt may be returned to Reserves.
4 PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game (do not flip the coin).
5 TEAM ANTHEM: Add +3 to your Fan Factor for this game only. (this is automated in PBeM Tool already)
6 EGGHEAD CONVENTION: A local inventor’s guild is sponsoring a convention in the city today. Several of the attendees are big fans of your team, and are willing to assist your team in today’s match in exchange for getting to watch the game from the sidelines. With their aid, your team will automatically win any Brilliant Coaching results on the Kickoff Table.
7 THAT BABE’S GOT TALENT! Your team visits the local tavern the night before the game. One of the exotic dancers displays her, umm, ‘talents,’ and your players leave her a generous tip. She and a few friends decide to hang out with your team for the day. You automatically win any Cheering Fans results on the Kickoff Table.
8 MIRACLE WORKER: Once during the game, this man with a direct link to some higher good (or evil) power can convert one just rolled Dead result from the injury table to a Badly Hurt result for one of your players.

Dirty Tricks and Random Events --- Handicap Points Needed: 20
1 MAGIC SPONGE: Your team has received a free magic sponge from the College of Wizards when they heard about this upcoming match. You may use the Magic Sponge once this game just like an Apothecary (even if your team normally doesn't have access to an apothecary).
2 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses D3 re-rolls for this match only.
3 SMELLING SALTS: You make all rolls to move a player from the Knocked Out box to the Reserves box on a roll of 2 or better for this match. (PBeM Tool automates this)
4 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has been out all night on a bender, and isn’t really ready for the game. The Really Stupid rule that applies to Trolls applies to the player for this match only. (Right Click, Stats Change, Give the player Really Stupid)
5 IRON MAN: One player on your team (your choice) is determined to play hard for the whole game, no matter what the cost – in fact, he refuses to get injured! If an opposing player beats his Armour roll, he is only Stunned. Injury dice should not to rolled. (Right Click, Stats Change, Give the player Iron Man)
6 BUZZING!: One of your players (your choice) has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today’s game. For this match only he gains the Jump Up trait and the Frenzy trait.
7 KIDS GLOVES: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has the NAF questioning his tactics on how he has been racking up those injuries. He decides to go easy this game to reduce the scrunity on him. All armour breaks against your team by this player from fouling or blocking will be treated as Stunned results without this player actually rolling to see an injury result. (Right Click, Stats Change, Give the player Pulled Punches)
8 EGO TRIP: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has developed a real swelled head from his success. For this match, this player must move first every turn or not move at all ((Right Click, Stats Change, Give the player Greater Glory)

Name: Desperate Measures --- Handicap Points Needed: 40
1 ASSASSIN: Pick a player on the opposing team. An assassin has poisoned his drink and he's unable to play during the game.
2 I AM THE GREATEST!: The two players with the most SPPs on the opposing team refuse to be on the pitch at the same time for this match only. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
3 MORLEY’S REVENGE: The opposing team’s drinks have been spiked with a powerful laxative. D3 randomly selected opposing players have drunk the spiked drink, and must roll a D6 before every kick-off. On a roll of 1-3 they are otherwise engaged and may not take part in this drive. On a roll of 4-6 they may be set up normally.
4 DOOM and GLOOM: Due to some cunningly planted rumors and smear campaigns, the opposing team comes into the game with some serious morale issues. Roll a D6 for each re-roll the opposing team has; for each result other than 1, the opposing team loses a re-roll for the match.
5 HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
6 IN THE BAG!: The opposing team is feeling cocky about their chances of winning this match. They can only field the 11 worst available players on their team, based on SPPs (in case of ties, the team with the lower TR picks which is unable to play). This restriction stops for the rest of the match as soon as your team takes the lead.
7 RUNNING LATE: Agents in your employ manage to delay D3 randomly selected players on the opposing team for this inconvenient match. The players must miss the first half.
8 DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?: A huge apothecary convention is in town (which even attracts several Necromancers) and it turns out that a lot of them are fans of your team. For this match, your team treats all Deaths as Serious Injury-Miss Next Game; all Serious Injuries are treated as Badly Hurt; and all Badly Hurts are treated as Knocked Out. This effect is applied before you have to use your Apothecary. The opposing team will still earn SPPs for Badly Hurt injuries that the apothecaries turn into KOs.

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Post by narkotic »

Darkson wrote:@ Narc - how do you find the tables based on 10/25/45 compared to the 10/20/40? If a coach has a say 45 handicap to spend, what sort of choice to you see, a 2x10+25 or a straight 45?
That is what I wanted to find out: we had 10/25/50 before but all coaches prefered to roll 2x 25 rather than 1x 50. So I boosted up the 50table a bit ironed out the "all or nothing results" and reduced them to 45.

I'm hesistant to make the middle table 20 it's basically 1-2Player+1TRR+some cash$+2-3 Skills difference and I don't want the overdog dragged down to the level of the underdog.

I experienced that rookie coaches rolled often on the lower tables to get +$ and after having enough cash/players they opted to roll on the middle table to get several different effects in order to reduce the risk of rolling one result without any effect for the opponent.

Actually now my 45 point table either removes the opponents best player or 2-4 random players for a while or reduces significantly the RRs.

the middle table

I made the tables cost approx. double the TR they should remove/prevent from the overdog = 45table should negate 20TR, 25table should negate 10-15 TR etc. The 10 table is here to give just a little boost.

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Post by narkotic »

GalakStarscraper wrote:Now I'm not saying you have to use the MBBL2 table ... but there are elements that I think are required for a good handicap table:
1) There are NO permanent effects to either team (ie no extra gold, MVPs, or players suffering injury roll).
2) All results take place immediately during the pre-game and effect the current match.
There are some nice ideas, I'll try to incorporate into my table. But why those two points? Why no extra gold for example?

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Post by Grumbledook »

stops teams from getting money way quicker than they get spp so have a full roster of unskilled guys, something i never really liked in 3rd edition

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

narkotic wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:Now I'm not saying you have to use the MBBL2 table ... but there are elements that I think are required for a good handicap table:
1) There are NO permanent effects to either team (ie no extra gold, MVPs, or players suffering injury roll).
2) All results take place immediately during the pre-game and effect the current match.
There are some nice ideas, I'll try to incorporate into my table. But why those two points? Why no extra gold for example?
Handicaps in my opinion should have only one of two effects (stealing a quote from Nazgit which I agree with):

1) Make you have a chance to win the game.
2) Keep your current team alive.

So gold and MVPS don't do anything to do either of these 2 points. So I personally reject them as handicap ideas.

Now based on my current attitude about the handicap table ... I'd like to replace SCUTT’S SCROLL OF WEATHER MAGIC and WINDS OF CHANGE so they has effects that are not delayed for later.

I'd replace the Weather roll with:
CHIRURGEON: Vault description
and replace WINDS of CHANGE with
MIRACLE WORKER: Change one Dead result to Badly Hurt during the match.

Galak

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Post by Darkson »

I could live with those. :) The tmes I've had the above 2 rolls, I've normally ended up not using the weather, and not really needing the WoC.

(Going off-topic here, but could those effects be combined? I.E. Dead player = BH with Miracle Worker = Reserves with Chiregeon?

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Post by narkotic »

ok, that's a point.

Those money rolls became quite popular in our league (well, no surprise eh?). We play a closed league with fixed schedule and mixed TR between 100 and 180, next saison the gap could be higher (that's why there will be a 200cap). We saw those extra coins as a good way to let rookie teams escape the downward spiral as they could buy an apo/extra lineman quite fast. But preventing them from suffering deaths/MNG is another, of course.

To your miracle worker: if you give an 10point underdog (which usually means he is one lineman short) the chance to prevent one death it's not primarily to prevent him being mashed but it's an advantage out of relation over the opposing team that is nearly as good/weak as yours. I have experienced that rookie matches can be deadly as highTR-lowTR or highTR-highTR match-ups, so with a miracle worker you can end up that the underdog danages the overdog and escapes any ill effect himself.

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