Chaos Human team roster

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:40 am

I posted this on Nazgits thread already, but I think I should post it here at new concepts as 1) I don't want to hijack another thread and 2) I'm aware that everything not along the lines that JJ gave out for the chaos all-stars has 0% of being considered, so this remains a house rule thingy:

Just an idea I pulled of my head for a chaos team that neither looks like a patch, nor is bland like the Beastmen/old chaos team.

It rather tries to recreate the feel of 2nd ed chaos teams

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Chaos Humans
0-12 Lineman 5/3/3/8 GE/PHY 60K
0-2 Blocker 4/4/2/9 GE/ST/PHY 80K
0-2 Blitzer 7/3/3/8 Block, GE/ST/PHY 90K
0-2 Mutant 6/3/3/8, Mutant, GE/PHY 80K
RR 70K
0-1 Big Guy (Mino, Troll, Ogre)

Mutant: when you hire a mutant player you may chose one physical trait for him as a starting skill. Furthermore, chose one skill category for this player. He will have access to the chosen category in addition to general skills. This categorey may not be changed afterwards.

They have the position that Humans lack: Blocker. The Linemen are overpriced but have access to ST (Chaos= poor skills but brute potential)
The mutants an be tailored to act as throwers, catchers, runners or bashers. At the end you'll have cheerful mutants like all those 2nd ed whackos. That shows that Chaos Humans recuit Mutants to fill the finese positions.
I'm not sure about the Mutant price (70K$? 90K$?) and their 0-4 slot (maybe 0-2)?

What do you think?

Edit1: removed ST access from the Linemen
Edit2: reduced Mutant slot to 0-2

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:07 pm

so basically, we have human blitzers and BOBs that get Ph access for no increase in price, just because the linemen are slightly overpriced (i say slightly, because by 16 XP they have block and guard)

plus the mutants are really overkill to me...

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:17 pm

1) the Linemen have MA-1 and do cost 10K more, that's more than just slighty overcost

2) there are just 2 blitzers and Blockers in this team, not 4 like in Orcs/Humans. Do Skaven positionals cost more bc they have Phy access?

3) a 6/3/3/8 mutant with one physical trait is much weaker than a normal thrower/catchers in ball handling and they cost 10K more than those positionals.

why Mutants are overkill? They are just 4 positionals.

Look at the whole team, not just at the single prices

m0nty_au · Post by **m0nty_au** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:19 pm

This is the sort of ridiculously unbalanced proposal I was talking about in the other thread. Very few Chaos Human proposals that I have seen have not followed the unstated theme of "let's cherrypick the best players from Human, Chaos and Orc, and give them Physical access (and maybe Strength too) with virtually no cost premium".

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:24 pm

m0nty_au wrote:This is the sort of ridiculously unbalanced proposal I was talking about in the other thread.

Yeah, unlike all your great ideas. Please get lost when you think to troll here any further as you usually do.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:30 pm

Hi all,
IMO, this is a bit much.
If the linemen did not have ST skills, then I think the team would be fine.

Sub-standard linemen, + 8 decent positionals, +1 big guy is fairly standard.
But with ST skills on the linemen, IMO, they are pretty good linemen.

Personally, I think the mutant idea is cute, but I'd rather not have a chaos human team and not have a chaos all star team.
I think there are more interesting things out there than an extra chaos roster.
Cheers
Martin

m0nty_au · Post by **m0nty_au** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:57 pm

I'm not trolling narkotic, that roster is seriously unbalanced. You have Rotters as the linemen, with no negatrait and Strength and Physical access for an extra 20k. That's alright, though I fail to see why they should have Strength access. You have a choice of three Big Guys, which you know from the Vault would not be allowed. You have Black Orc Blockers with Physical access with no cost premium, then you have Human Blitzers with Physical access with no cost premium. Why not try to construct distinctive positionals? Why are you lifting positionals straight out of other rosters with no cost premium for the extra access? And surely you did not intend for Physical skills to be available on normal skill rolls... did you?

Then we come to the Mutants. This woudl only work with some restrictions. As you state it, TV100 teams would be able to start with four Claws, or four FA! A couple of Extra Arms would remove the ball-handling weaknesses that starting chaos teams are supposed to have. Might I humbly suggest that if you want to take that concept any further that you restrict the choices to only one of any mutation.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:10 pm

Here m0nty_au...hate this for awhile...you'll feel better.

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Khorne Chaos Teams

0-16 Marauders            6 3 3 7 Frenzy          50K  Gen
0-2   Bloodletters          7 3 3 8 RS Clwz       110K  Gen Ag, Phys
0-2   Warriors               5 4 3 9 Tackle          120K Gen, St, Phys
Big Guy 
0-1 Chaos Spawn (D6) 6 2 9 Wild Animal, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Chaotic* 
                                                                      130K Gen, St, Phys  
Re-rolls 60K
May not freeboot wizards

*Chaotic- This player is touched by the gods of chaos and therefore can take Physical Abilities on skill rolls that are not doubles. Also his movement is unpredictable and random. To determine where he moves place the throw-in template over his head so that the 3-4 result is pointed directly towards one of the end zones. (You must use all of his MA.) If he enters an occupied square the Spawn will throw a block on the player, whether he be friend or foe. (This does not count as a team’s blitz for the turn)

Teenztch Chaos Teams

0-16 Marauders   6 3 3 7 Pro        50K Gen
0-2   Sorcerers    8 2 3 7 Blink*     90K Gen, Ag, Phys
0-2   Warriors      5 4 3 9 Leader  120K Gen, St, Phys
Big Guy
0-1    Flamers 6 5 3 8 Bound**, Flames***, Flux****
                                                      130K Gen & St
Re-rolls 70K
Freeboot wizards for 30K

*Blink- this player may take a special move action each turn. Instead of a normal move he may roll a D6, on a 2+ he is allowed to teleport to any unoccupied square that is up to half of his MA away (round down). This move may not be used for a blitz and the player may not take any other actions that turn. On a roll of a 1 the player has become lost in the chaos dimension and will not return for the rest of the match. If the player is carrying the ball and becomes lost, scatter the ball from the square the player teleported from.

**Bound- when this player moves he bounces rather than runs. He may pass through any square occupied by a prone or stunned player as if the square was unoccupied. All restrictions on normal movement apply (tackle zones, diving tackle, prehensile tail etc.), treat the square as if it were empty. The player may only pass through the square; he may not stop on it. If the player fails a dodge, or for any reason would normally go prone in the occupied square then he will go prone in the square he was moving to after the occupied square.

***Flames- once per turn this player may take a special “flame” action. The player may attempt to ignite one opposing player who is in his tackle zone. Make armor for the player. This action has been declared illegal and the coach of the flamed player may make a referee roll as if it was a foul attempt and likewise puts the flamer’s team under the eye of the ref.

****Flux- this player does not belong in our dimension and his body is constantly shifting from corporal to ethereal. Because of this you must roll a D6 after declaring an action for the player, but before taking the action. On a roll of 1 they can’t hold their physical form together and revert to a sort of ghost like state and the player is forced to concentrate to regain his tangible form. The player can’t do anything for the turn, and the player’s team loses the declared action for that turn. (So if a Flux player declares a Blitz and rolls a 1, then the team cannot declare another Blitz that turn.) The player loses his tackle zone until he manages to roll a 2 or better at the start of an action.


Nurgle Chaos Teams

0-12 Marauders 5 3 3 9                                                   50K Gen
0-8 Nurglings     6 1 3 6   Foul Appearance, Regeneration, 
                                        Dodge, Titchy, Right Stuff           50K Ag, Phys
0-2 Warriors      5 4 3 9   Regeneration                                120K Gen, St, Phys
Big Guy
0-1    Plague Bearer 3 5 2 8   Foul App, Regeneration, Mighty Blow, 
Throw Team Mate, Flux*
                                                                                             120K Gen, St, Phys
Re-rolls 70K
No Apothecary
*See above

Slaanesh Chaos Teams

0-12 Marauders   6 3 3 7 Dauntless                           50K Gen
0-2 Fiends           6 3 3 9 Prehensile Tail, Claw        100K Gen, Ag, Phys
0-2 Warriors        5 4 3 9 Nerves of Steel                 120K Gen, St, Phys
Big Guy
0-1   Daemonette 5 5 3 8 Hypno Gaze, Mighty Blow, 
Claw, Flux*
                                                                                   130K Gen, St, Phys
Re-rolls 70K
*See above.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:11 pm

First of all please leave out all vault terms, this is supposed for LRB 3.0. The Linemen are not rotters but Human Linemen with less MA, and nowhere it says that physical traits are taken for a normal skill roll, that's again hat crept out of the vault.

I have removed the ST access from the Linemen. This is in act a modified Human Roster, I took away Throwers and Catchers and gave them Bockers (yes, BOBs).
The access to physicals never affected the price of a positional, at least not in all official roster up to date. I'm compensating it with sub-optimal Linemen and high RR cost.

The four FA/Claw starting roster is an argument, so restricting that slot to 0-2 would make it ok. If someone wants to forfeit any ball handling for two claw players, well it's his choice. I really don't like rule patches like "you can't take a mutation that is already been picked by another player of that team etc"

m0nty_au · Post by **m0nty_au** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:41 pm

I don't think the BBRC is going to approve any new teams beyond the Ogres and Vampires until the 2007 Vault update, so I think you should work within the Vault environment if you want it to actually be part of the game at some point.

I think your amendments make that roster a lot better, narkotic. It's starting to look more like a cross between the Human and Necromantic rosters, but I don't see that as being a bad thing.

As for DL...

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:50 pm

m0nty,

This isn't the Vault. It's new concepts...and designing teams with the Vault as a basis is just plain ignorant at this point.

I mean the Vault is about as stable as 500 pound jell-o cube.

Feel free to PM me with what is so

about the above rosters.
I know from experience that your icon replies usually mean that you want to disagree with it but you don't know how.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:53 pm

m0nty_au wrote:I don't think the BBRC is going to approve any new teams beyond the Ogres and Vampires until the 2007 Vault update, so I think you should work within the Vault environment if you want it to actually be part of the game at some point.

That was never my claim or aim. I know the route for Chaos as given out by JJ. This is not supposed to be a recommendation or an idea how to make the vault roster better, as it wouldn't stand a chance in the light what chaos should look like in the vault. This is not for the BBRC, nor for the vault. This is for our league when the vault all stars roster should become official. Therefore it is totally legit (and even makes sense) for me to operate outside the vault environment.

m0nty_au · Post by **m0nty_au** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:59 pm

Fair enough narkotic, sorry for misunderstanding you. It looks like a fine house rule roster, good job.

And DL, the

was for your comment before you pasted the teams.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:24 pm

Oh ok.

I didn't know you thought I was witty.

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:59 pm

My suggestion:

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0-12 Cultist       50  6 3 3 8  Gen, Phy  -
0-2  Daemonette    70  6 3 3 7  Gen, Phy  Daemon, Claw
0-2  Horror        70  6 3 3 7  Gen, Phy  Daemon, Big Hand
0-2  Blood Letter  100 6 4 2 7  Gen, Str  Daemon, Frenzy
0-2  Plague Bearer 100 4 4 2 9  Gen, Str  Daemon, Foul Appearance
0-1  Spawn         120 4 5 1 9  Str, Phy  Daemon, Foul Appearance, Big Guy, Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, Tentacles

Daemon: a player with this characteristic cannot be healed by apothecaries.

This team should be more powerful than the current chaos team at TR100 (since it starts with some skills and has cheaper linemen), but less powerful on the long run due to no strength skills on the linemen and daemons that can't take any damage.