Dwarf runner with double on first skill roll

[Zyad]

thats why you hit his tacklers, so they cannot be there... this is dwarves we're talking about... once his tacklers are down, he is forced to hit with a non-tackler, so he needs a double "pow" to knock you down, since its probably a 2db your choice anyway.

The only teams the will most likely have more than two tacklers are dwarves/chaos dwarves, since they start with so much of it anyway... Other teams will have a hard time hitting your blodger, once you deal with the tacklers.

ok so we went from "it's good to have your enemy focusing two players on your dodger since it reduces its options" to "you have to make all of your team work towards getting the tacklers down". makes much sense indeed

whats funny is i never said either of those things

[Xeterog]

it's always a good thing to get a skill effect negated ? seriously, how many times do you need to dodge with a runner ? dodge is WASTED when you have only one in a team, cause then the opponent can easily make sure his tacklers are there.

that is a load of BS.

1) you force him to USE his tacklers (which are generally a limite resource)

2) if they don't (or can't if you lock down his tacklers), then if the runner gets BLOCKED, then he gets to use his dodge skill to avoid getting knocked down...contrary to some peoples thinking, dodge is useful for more than just dodgeing away from someone you know.

3) When you need to dodge away, it is a very useful thing to have..even on just one player.

Gus, do you not know how to position your players so that his tacklers can't get to your runner with dodge???

[Xeterog]

ok so we went from "it's good to have your enemy focusing two players on your dodger since it reduces its options" to "you have to make all of your team work towards getting the tacklers down". makes much sense indeed

1) it is good to limit your opposition to as few choices as is possible. When a team only has 1 or 2 Tacklers (which is the case in alot of games), they probably want to use those players on your blodger.

2) This is dwarves we are talking about...it is generally pretty easy for me to tie up 1 or 2 specific players with MUCH less than all of my team (maybe 3 or 4...waaay less than 11)

Dodge does so much good for a runner and is so useful at least 90% of the time that I fail to see why you are so against it just because 10% of the time, someone with tackle will negate the skill...

[Gus]

Gus, do you not know how to position your players so that his tacklers can't get to your runner with dodge???

Gortex, don't you know how to position your players so that he doesn't get more than a 2db your choice ? i'm sorry, i face clever opponents who know how to position their tacklers as well as i know how to prevent them from doing so. that's measuring strategies. the point is that if i get sidestep, i get a skill that is always useful, not only when my opponent outsmart me in getting a tackler in range. which he eventually always does, of course. you asked me this question, but unless you're some kind of god of BB, you've get tackled as well.

[Xeterog]

While side step is a very useful skill and never gets negated, it is my opinion that having block/dodge is so much better than having block/sidestep even with dodge occasionally getting negated that I'd take dodge 1st every single time.

Back when stand firm was a skill, not a trait, I always took dodge for my LONGBEARDS on doubles, just for the effect it has on blocks.

Blodge is the single best skill combo IN THE GAME, IMO. (Claw/RSC is a close second) On a runner, it makes them more mobile and less likely to get knocked down..both things you need for a ball carrier--especially on dwarves. Dodge will help a runner score more TD's. Side step will not.

Just because it can be negated does not mean it will always be negated, and thus still very useful.

Yes, my guy with dodge will occasionally get hit by a player with tackle..but not every hit...and not every time I need to dodge away am I dodging away from a tackler. By paying attention to opposing players skills, I can generally limit their tacklers from hitting my Blodger...not every ttime...sometimes they have positioned their players better, or get better luck...but sitll Dodge has kept a runner of mine standing more often than not.

[Zyad]

Gus, do you not know how to position your players so that his tacklers can't get to your runner with dodge???

Gortex, don't you know how to position your players so that he doesn't get more than a 2db your choice ?

but even a 2db your choice has a 1/9 chance of suceeding on a block/sidestepper. It has a 1 in 36 chance of suceeding on a blodger.

and if your gonna take the approach that your opponent is better than you, as you just have, i would assume he could at least get a 1db on you...

and in the sense that it cannot be negated, neither can shadowing, but i don't see you giving that to the runner
in all seriousness though, sidestep is good, but it wont help you nearly as much as dodge will...

And another reason dodge is good. say you are playing against chaos. Your opponent has a choice of who to hit you with. It is either his ckaw/rsc beastman, or his beastman with tackle. If you dont have dodge, he will go right in the the claw/rsc guy and more probably than not, at least stun your runner. If he is forced to hit with the tackler, your runner will most likely be able to get up the next turn.

[Gus]

but even a 2db your choice has a 1/9 chance of suceeding on a block/sidestepper. It has a 1 in 36 chance of suceeding on a blodger.

except that a decent opponent wil throw that block with his tackle blitzer.


EDIT:

And another reason dodge is good. say you are playing against chaos. Your opponent has a choice of who to hit you with. It is either his ckaw/rsc beastman, or his beastman with tackle. If you dont have dodge, he will go right in the the claw/rsc guy and more probably than not, at least stun your runner. If he is forced to hit with the tackler, your runner will most likely be able to get up the next turn.

oh well then, if it is as widely useful as that, then...

[TuernRedvenom]

ok so we went from "it's good to have your enemy focusing two players on your dodger since it reduces its options" to "you have to make all of your team work towards getting the tacklers down". makes much sense indeed

No-one said "you have to make all of your team work towards getting the tacklers down". You know he's going to try to hit your ball carrier with one of those two players so you can plan accordingly, simple.

[Zyad]

but even a 2db your choice has a 1/9 chance of suceeding on a block/sidestepper. It has a 1 in 36 chance of suceeding on a blodger.

except that a decent opponent wil throw that block with his tackle blitzer.

Thats why you tie up his tackle blitzer, so he cannot throw that block.

EDIT:

And another reason dodge is good. say you are playing against chaos. Your opponent has a choice of who to hit you with. It is either his ckaw/rsc beastman, or his beastman with tackle. If you dont have dodge, he will go right in the the claw/rsc guy and more probably than not, at least stun your runner. If he is forced to hit with the tackler, your runner will most likely be able to get up the next turn.

oh well then, if it is as widely useful as that, then...

that was one example. The point is, you want your opponent to be forced to take tackle instead of mighty blow/claw/rsc/other damaging skills.

[Xeterog]

I guess I'll give up trying to convince Gus that dodge is worth it..if he doesn't like having the best combo in the game, so be it...

[JJB]

It was fun watching you argue guys...

[Lofwyr]

Dodge is so valuable, i would take it everytime i get a double on a dwarven runner ( and even on all the other dwarven players i would take it into account...)

Tobi

[Gus]

I guess I'll give up trying to convince Gus that dodge is worth it..if he doesn't like having the best combo in the game, so be it...

i could say "diving catch and hail mary pass is the best combo in the game" that wouldn't make that true. saying "blodge is the best combo in the game" is nothing more but YOUR opinion. please don't state it as a general truth, thanks.

[Mic]

I think you should definitely get dodge.

Look at all the focus this one player has received, imagine how much he'd get in the game.

Sometimes it is so easy to distract opponents with one player that they sometimes forget to cover others or think things through properly.

Personally I think dodge would be useful as if your runner gets blocked it's going to take your opponents with tackle to get him, not just anyone on his team. Players get knocked down and sometimes injured. Who says that both (if they have 2) blitzers with the tackle skill are going to still be on the field or are going to be on their feet and in range.

I understand Gus' argument, that having a skill that can be easily negated makes it a waste, but having said that the tackle skill is useless unless some has dodge in the first place. Just wondering if Gus has any players with the tackle skill? By no means am I suggesting that tackle is a useless skill though.

Dodge is a good skill and Blodge is one the best skill combinations and one I usually go for.

Dodge gives you two benefits.

1. harder to knock down
2. can get a reroll on dodge

Forcing your opponent to use specific players to take down your blodger means that, generally, he has to keep them away from the action to use them effectively. Means, as dwarves that you may have more chance to isolate other players and remove them from the field.

As dwarves tend to grind down their opponents and then walk in a TD the more isolated players the better, while working that cage down field. When you spring the cage and go for the score just make sure the tacklers can't get at your ball carrier, shouldn't be that difficult if you've worked your way into his half.

Anyway, I think that dodge is the best choice. Though Gus' argument does have some merit.

[begbie]

I'd take dodge for all the good reasons in the other posts. Particularly because its combination with block is so useful in the scrum.

Granted there are all the Tackle considerations, although these will vary from game to game depending upon your oppoent and their team development. I think the point that a few here are trying to make is that you can work around your opponents tackling players, and if he's picked up a few with strip ball instead of tackle than thats even better for you.

IMO dodge only loses its usefullness when playing against a team of, say, dwarves

So I'd recommend dodge, although strong arm would be my recommendation if you were thinking of developing a runner into a thrower.