Dwarf Lineman with Ma-1 rolls double

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:56 pm

A useless contribution:

Sprint

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm

first, sidestep combines as well (if not more) than stand firm with guard.

second, 10 players isn't very important with dwarves, you should soon be evening the score... get a RR, that should help you getting a handicap roll on top of the fact that you'll be much more able to hit and play the ball.

Mnemok · Post by **Mnemok** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:00 pm

I fully agree with Gus.
A sidestepping dwarf is a nightmare to face.

Drool_bucket · Post by **Drool_bucket** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:21 pm

Mnemok- nice CnF minotaur avatar, btw... great game.

anyhoo...

I already put my $.02 in, but I just want to expand on what he should purchase with that money.

I am against the re-roll. The 11th player is much more important, because of the lack of speed. You need as many bodies to cover as much ground as possible. Spreading thin means more 2 die blocks against you, more guys on the ground, and finally, more GFIs to cover fast moving recievers.

I am also against rerolls because all the hitters have block, so you only have a 1/36 chance of rolling double skulls. skull, skull/POW doesn't kill you like most other teams.

Finally, the way I play dwarfs, the only ball handling you do you already have the built in RR. Sure hands on the runner. I don't believe in handing off the ball, certainly not tossing it. My runners score about 90% of my TDs, unless I am up by two TDs or desperate, or have lots of rerolls.

I use RRs usually at the end of the half to re-roll double pushes, so to get extra knockdowns, especially on guys who have mighty blow. (which should be your TS, IMO)

Now, this doesn't mean I don't like rerolls, dwarfs should get their "full" roster of 7 LBs and 2 of each skilled postion, their apoth, and then buy RRs until they have 4-5 of them. Then spend money on runesmiths and starplayers.

anyhoo.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:16 pm

Gus wrote:i disagree... stand firm is only better than sidestep because it allows free dodges, which you won't try often with a MA3 AG2 dwarf... sidestep will allow him to gain some squares and not be beaten constantly because only pushed back.

Gus..I"m begining to wonder about you..

Stand firm allows him to TRY the dodge without risk of it failing!!

Stand firm and Guard is a GREAT combo for a longbeard..keeps them in the middle of the scrum where their guard skill works wonders.

Side step is ok as a skill..but I'd take stand firm over it for any longbeard.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:01 pm

you're beginning to wonder about what ?

i'm sorry, but i believe i do know the effect of each skill rather well... i do know, for instance, that stand firm allows to try a dodge with no risk of turnover.

and i'm sure you do know that given the choice between hitting with your dwarf, or trying to move for three squares with a HIGH chance of just losing your movement, you should MOST OF THE TIME (not always, just more often) hit.

now, you keep saying that SF keeps the dwarf in the middle of the scrum. that is of course very true given the description of the skill. but being very true doesn't mean being very great. it is cool, okay, but what Sidestep offers is being able to CHOSE if you want to:
- stick to the guy who just blocked you
- get away from the fouling pit or the blocking party
- gain one square by moving towards the needed position

and yeah, sidestep is ok as a skill, and yeah, maybe you'd take SF over it on any LB, that's great. i'm defending (with arguments) the fact that sidestep is equally good.

Zyad · Post by **Zyad** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:00 pm

Well, i see what you are trying to say, but I would usually only give side step to a blodger. I see more use for side step in conjunction with diving tackle and/or shadowing, or for a receiver of a pass, something im sure most dwarves don't have

I always preferred stand firm for a bashy team, since it allows you to hold your ground, and is extremely useful for cages, especailly if you have a lot of it.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:09 pm

but i've never said SF wasn't very good

i'm merely saying that on a LB, sidestep can be an equally (if not more, depending on your point of view and on the use you make of the player) relevant choice

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:53 am

Very often, the Longbeard in the very middle of the LOS does not need to move..and if so, maybe only on square for better positioning. SF gives him that oppurtunty to stay put where you need him whether whatever happens. I rarely use the SF effect on dodge to dodge AWAY from someone, but the dodge into 3 or 4 TZ's where my Guard will be much better used...but where I couldn't/can't/shouldn't block with the guy.

Side step gives you no chance to get in amongst 2 or more opponents..unless they also knock you down..and even then, it was their turn and could very well move away from your downed Sidestepper.

I guess it's kind of like your objection to dodge (mis-guided as I think that is)..I like Stand Firm over Sidestep because I can use it whether or not an opponent hits me..Sidestep only works when I get blocked an pushed back..

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:33 pm

of course you can use SF when you want. but having played quite a number of dwarf teams, i do often prefer to hit my way through a scrum than dodging into it. once again, don't get me wrong, SF is great, and both effects of the skill are great. but sidestep is very useful and completely relevant as well.

duff · Post by **duff** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:16 pm

To me SF has two important advantages for this player
1 - The opponent can't follow up (and therfor move) the blocking player
2 - The opponent dosn't have the opption of not following up, making it impossible for this dwarf to mark him again without a GFI because all 3 of his movement points are gone on standing up.

Point 2 applys in the (common) situation of the opponents Big'un being in the middle of the LOS where sidestep won't let your dwarf avoid being moved back.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:38 pm

sure you won't be pushed and won't have to do a GFI to mark him back, but then, with sidestep, you will be able to position yourself to still be in contact, wherever he moves. and on the LoS, if you decide to stay there, you will be able to, and if you decide you're safer a square back, then you'll have the opportunity to do so.

Alesdair · Post by **Alesdair** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:00 am

If you are stupid enough to put the sidestepper in the middle of the LoS then you deserve to be pushed back and not followed up, but if he is on the ned of the LoS then he can choose to go to a place that is next to the opponent...
but that takes away his immediate use of being the big'un plaything.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:23 am

what about you put the sidestepper in the middle of the LoS but you don't put someone in the adjacent squares of the LoS ? that is a defense i have seen used many times and that i use often myself.