Critical success and failure for skill rolls

[Cooper]

the 1 and 6 is as much a core of the D6 system as the 1 and 20 on a D20 system... think a bit, hmmm

and 1 +1(accurate) makes 2, but it still fails. And i(!) need to think?

W

[Cooper]

Perhaps i will understand better when i know why they came up with this "1 is allways a failure, 6 is allways a succes" stuff.

Why was this rule necessary in BB? i mean at some point they made the rule, why? I would like to know, because it is an extra rule and not an artefact from the system or something like that. And IMO it is not a good extra rule.

W

Well, think of it in terms of real life. A defensive lineman can still possibly intercept a ball, even if they have practically no hands, in the same way an all-pro wide receiver can drop a pass when he is all alone... hence the 1 6 rule. it just makes sense..

I am not talking about real life here, but i am pretty sure that a pro wide receiver does not drop an accurate pass 18% of the time. If he did he would be no pro.

[
It makes the game interesting, unpredictable, and fun.

That is an ingame reason, more what i was looking for. and if you think unpredictable is fun, there is not much i can say.
I don't think too unpredictable is fun.

W

[Cooper]

Perhaps i will understand better when i know why they came up with this "1 is allways a failure, 6 is allways a succes" stuff.

Why was this rule necessary in BB? i mean at some point they made the rule, why? I would like to know, because it is an extra rule and not an artefact from the system or something like that. And IMO it is not a good extra rule.

W

The rule of 1 and 6 is a core part of the rule in all GW games. It added there to create fun and suspense by nothing being impossible or automatic.

So basically what you're saying is: it is added to increase the influence of chance, right? not for any other reason.
If we are clear on that,...if that is the reason i don't like it and it is a bad call imo. I think i noticed i am one of few who don't like that amount of chance. too bad.

W


And generally ... by most folks (you and Blackscale excluded) considered a good part of the GW suite of game mechanics.

Galak[/quote]

[GalakStarscraper]

I think i noticed i am one of few who don't like that amount of chance. too bad.

I don't know that I'm saying too bad. See I'm a huge fan of house rules. If you can convince the BUBBLE league to move to D10s or D12s (which would probably be easier to use as you just double the scale of needed rolls) ... than I'm all for you playing BB that way.

I'm just trying to say that the opinion that the 3 folks in the BUBBLE have that the game is too much luck driven is not a majority opinion. An expressed and heartfelt opinion ... yes ... majority ... no. And as such the odds that a change would occur to move the game in the direction you desire is low.

Galak

[Cooper]

I think i noticed i am one of few who don't like that amount of chance. too bad.

I don't know that I'm saying too bad. See I'm a huge fan of house rules. If you can convince the BUBBLE league to move to D10s or D12s (which would probably be easier to use as you just double the scale of needed rolls) ... than I'm all for you playing BB that way.

I'm just trying to say that the opinion that the 3 folks in the BUBBLE have that the game is too much luck driven is not a majority opinion. An expressed and heartfelt opinion ... yes ... majority ... no. And as such the odds that a change would occur to move the game in the direction you desire is low.

Galak

Yes, houserules can be a solution, we should talk about that. (but i think our commisioner (Dave) is on your side )
W

[Gus]

the 1 and 6 is as much a core of the D6 system as the 1 and 20 on a D20 system... think a bit, hmmm

and 1 +1(accurate) makes 2, but it still fails. And i(!) need to think?

W

yes, you obviously do. when you chose a system with a D6, or D10, or D20, it is to serve the representation of RANDOMNESS you want your game to have. D20 systems usually make criticals (failure or success) on a 1 and 20. on a D6, the criticals are on a 1 and 6, that makes perfect sense.

now, that is a game decision, to say that even the easiest thing in the word can be failed by the most expert guy in the world, in 1 out of 6 cases. and it also states that even the most stupid guy ever can still accomplish something 1 in 6 times. you may like it or not, but that's how the D6 system works. dice are a representation of randomness, and it has been decided that in BB this description would be made by a D6, with the implications i stated.

[Cooper]

the 1 and 6 is as much a core of the D6 system as the 1 and 20 on a D20 system... think a bit, hmmm

and 1 +1(accurate) makes 2, but it still fails. And i(!) need to think?

W

yes, you obviously do. when you chose a system with a D6, or D10, or D20, it is to serve the representation of RANDOMNESS you want your game to have. D20 systems usually make criticals (failure or success) on a 1 and 20. on a D6, the criticals are on a 1 and 6, that makes perfect sense.

now, that is a game decision, to say that even the easiest thing in the word can be failed by the most expert guy in the world, in 1 out of 6 cases. and it also states that even the most stupid guy ever can still accomplish something 1 in 6 times. you may like it or not, but that's how the D6 system works. dice are a representation of randomness, and it has been decided that in BB this description would be made by a D6, with the implications i stated.

I am questioning, the whole 1 is a failure 6 is a succes thing. and your answer is "how can it be different, BECAUSE 1 is a failure and 6 is a succes"?
what kind of answer is that?

W

[Gus]

i'm trying to make you understand, despite your thick skull, that the choice of the number of facets of a dice when creating a game is the way to represent randomness... the design choice of BB was a D6, thus the rule of the 1 and 6. as has been suggested, just create a new BB with a D12 system. or even better, suppress the dice altogether, that way no more luck to "flaw the game".

[Cooper]

i'm trying to make you understand, despite your thick skull, that the choice of the number of facets of a dice when creating a game is the way to represent randomness... the design choice of BB was a D6, thus the rule of the 1 and 6. as has been suggested, just create a new BB with a D12 system. or even better, suppress the dice altogether, that way no more luck to "flaw the game".

For some reason, you seem to be not open to the possibilty that 1 doesn't have to be a failure, nor 6 has to be a succes.
This was a choice that had nothing to do with the choice for a d6 or a d12 or whatever.

a mummy in a tacklezone would have to roll a 7 for an interception, but for some reason a 6 is suddenly enough.

an AG-5thrower with accurate throwing a quickpass should roll a 1+ for succes, but instead 1 is a failure.

This has nothing to do with the choice of a d6 or a d12, but only with the choice to make 1 allways a failure, and 6 allways a succes.

I am questioning that rule at this moment. It looks like you didn't understand that yet.

Thick skulled and proud of it,
W

[Gus]

"This was a choice that had nothing to do with the choice for a d6 or a d12 or whatever."


damn, how much times will i have to explain again that it has EVERYTHING to do with that ?

[Munkey]

Gus, I think Cooper's trying to say that there need not be a rule of 1 and 6 (or 10/12/20/etc).

In effect a player with an AG 5 would always Dodge without exception and a player with AG 2 would never be able to intercept. Not my idea of fun, personally, but each to his own.

[Zyad]

i'm trying to make you understand, despite your thick skull, that the choice of the number of facets of a dice when creating a game is the way to represent randomness... the design choice of BB was a D6, thus the rule of the 1 and 6. as has been suggested, just create a new BB with a D12 system. or even better, suppress the dice altogether, that way no more luck to "flaw the game".

For some reason, you seem to be not open to the possibilty that 1 doesn't have to be a failure, nor 6 has to be a succes.
This was a choice that had nothing to do with the choice for a d6 or a d12 or whatever.

a mummy in a tacklezone would have to roll a 7 for an interception, but for some reason a 6 is suddenly enough.

an AG-5thrower with accurate throwing a quickpass should roll a 1+ for succes, but instead 1 is a failure.

This has nothing to do with the choice of a d6 or a d12, but only with the choice to make 1 allways a failure, and 6 allways a succes.

I am questioning that rule at this moment. It looks like you didn't understand that yet.

Thick skulled and proud of it,
W

Eliminating the 1 and 6 rule would mean that ag5 could dodge away with total impunity, and an ag2 player could never intercept. If you make blood bowl like that, the game would just plain suck... Agility teams would rule, and teams like khemri would be left in the dust, unused and worthless...
The game would be no fun if you take away the chance...

[Dave]

I am not talking about real life here, but i am pretty sure that a pro wide receiver does not drop an accurate pass 18% of the time. If he did he would be no pro.

3% actually, he's got catch ..

[Cooper]

Eliminating the 1 and 6 rule would mean that ag5 could dodge away with total impunity, and an ag2 player could never intercept. If you make blood bowl like that, the game would just plain suck... Agility teams would rule, and teams like khemri would be left in the dust, unused and worthless......

Ah, but that is a matter of balance again. If you change something on one side from tha balance you have to change something on the other side as well to keep the balance. If most people wanted that 1-6 rule changed i guess there are ways thinkable to get the balance back again.

The game would be no fun if you take away the chance...

That is your opinion, not mine, but if you think that than there is nothing i could say. (apart from, i don't want to take away ALL the chance, just most of it)

By the way, Blackscale offered the option of things like a AG1 player in a TZ intercepting can still happen, but you would first have to roll a 6 to see if he can actually try and than roll a 6 for succeeding. In other words, decrease but not eliminate the chance factor.

W

[Munkey]

That is your opinion, not mine, but if you think that than there is nothing i could say. (apart from, i don't want to take away ALL the chance, just most of it)

If you take away most of the chance there is less likelihood that it will even out in one game, then it will just be more annoying when one player does get that lucky 1-100 break.