Why strong arm is a trait and not accurate ?

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 8:02 pm

Quite right LS, Montana never had an arm like Elway...

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:54 am

Longshot wrote:ok, but BB players are 'professional' players.
Joe Montana used to throw the ball at a distance Max, not over. but some thrower could throw to a longer distance. And they cant teach this...

true, you scored a point here.

But i still think a trait, because being more difficult to get, got to be stronger or different as a skill, it just don t seem logical to me that a thrower who rolled double can be less efficient than one that didn t.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 12:06 pm

How is the strong arm trait called in French? Give me the actual French word, not a translation.

It just stikes me that the only two people who think accurate should be a trait and strong arm a skill are from France. Maybe it's a lexical problem only.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 12:17 pm

the exact translation word by word for strong arm would be "bras puissant" but they translated as "costaud" (wich mean strong), and accuracy is "precision" and they translated as is.

The point is i don t want accuracy become a trait and strong arm a skill, i just thunk a trait got to be more powerfull. A solution i consider for example could be to rename the skill with something like this :

Strong arm could keep the same name or a name that refer to a throwing technique, and reduce the range for 1 and be a skill

accuracy coulb be renamed as "perfect sight" or "perfect vision" and become a trait.

I understand why strong arm is a trait (something you can t learn) and why accuracy is a skill (a technique you learn), i just think a trait got to be better.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:53 pm

i am french and i believe that Strong arm is a trait !! and Accurate a skill.
they only think that accurate is better (which is true) so it must be a trait and Strong arm a skill...That is not the meaning of thee difference between a trait and a skill.

anyway, i was a fan of Steve Young!!

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:54 pm

And, of course Brett Favre was magic

too

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:36 pm

Strong arm IS better, because you can combine it with accurate for even more precision. Accurate can't be combined with strong arm unless you roll a double. It's just fine the way it is.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:39 pm

yup but imagine 2 thrower getting first skill, one roll double and the other roll normal, the one that got accuracy is better until they get a second skill.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:27 pm

Irrelevant.

You can't compare the 2 skills in a vacuum because this is not how they are used.

The player who got Strong Arm is better off than the player with Accurate because he only needs a standard skill roll to be able to combine the two. On its own Strong Arm isn't as good, but you don't measure it on its own. The player with Strong Arm now has greater potential than the player with Accurate. That the Accurate player is slightly better off at that point in time is immaterial.

Marcus

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:02 pm

And marcus threw a TD Pass on this one!!!

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:09 pm

Marcus : You think a thrower with Strong Arm is better than another one with accurate cos the first one can get easily Accurate and the second can 't get easily Strong Arm (but he has already accurate

).
Are you mean a poor trait is always better than a poor skill. Cos if it's harder to get so when you got it, you have made the harder part of the combo !?

A strange thinking for me.

The fact is that Accurate is easier to get and better to use than Strong Arm. So a skill is in all points better than a trait and is unlogical.

I remember a thread about the Chet big idea, where Galak have said that a skill should not be strictly better than another one. i agree with this thougth, this is why Strong Arm should be a skill and Accurate a trait.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:15 am

neverdodge wrote:yup but imagine 2 thrower getting first skill, one roll double and the other roll normal, the one that got accuracy is better until they get a second skill.

If Accurate is better, why did the 1st thrower take "Strongarm" on a double? Why didn't he just take "Accurate"?

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:21 am

Strong arm is good, accurate is only slightly better, and strong arm + accurate is totally kick ass. A human thrower with both can make a long bomb at 4+. That's why strong arm is great, because it can be combined with accurate and accurate can't be combined with strong arm unless you roll a double. Besides, most throwers already have accurate when they roll a double, so there's no question that strong arm is then the way to go.

I've got a feeling that you didn't know that strong arm could be combined with accurate (and didn't figure it out after we told you like 5 times) and that's why you thought it sucked. Am i right?

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:52 am

I think the argument being made is that Accurate - on it's own - is better than Strong Arm - on it's own.

The simple response to this argument is that the context is fallacious as you can't compare the the two skills in isolation - that's not the context they are used in in practice.

What you are then left with is an argument over whether or not it's more important that a trait tie in with Fluff or that it follow some self imposed theory of game mechanics.

Given that there is no real practical application of this argument it's probably best to put it to bed and go have a game of Bloodbowl.

Marcus

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:07 pm

Zombie wrote:I've got a feeling that you didn't know that strong arm could be combined with accurate (and didn't figure it out after we told you like 5 times) and that's why you thought it sucked. Am i right?

No, you're wrong. I know you can combine the skills (hell, our Skaven coach got it - awesome combo on a Skaven team). What I was saying is that if Accurate is so much better as neverdodge was arguing, why would a player take stronarm, even if they did rol a double?