changes for chaos dwarf and human rosters

[absent1]

i want to houserule the human and chaos dwarf rosters for a small league i'm going to run, it's probably going to be an open league
changes in orange

i want to make humans
0-12 linemen
0-2 thrower
0-4 blitzer ONLY 80k
0-4 catcher ->8 3 3 7 catch dodge GA 90k
0-1 ogre

and chaos dwarves
0-12 hobgob
0-6 chaos dwarves
0-2 black orcs
0-1 bull centaur
no big guy

[gken1]

still only two hobgobs need to be fielded. I'd like to see cd's play with 3 hobs onthe pitch

[absent1]

i'd be fine with just
0-12 hobs
0-6 cd's
0-2 bulls

kinda fine with that anyway.

[Gus]

human would be sickly overpowered.

[Xtreme]

I would really consider 0-2 Catchers and 0-2 blitzers if you are going to bump the catchers strength up.

Do you think the Human team needs improving?

[grotuk]

I would prefer AG improvement than the strength..

8 2 4 7 for 90K will be fair

[absent1]

humans are terrible, not afraid of unbalancing them, i like the agi 4 catchers, but that would be better than str 3 catchers i think, because human teams are passing teams, agi 4 would meet that end, where as a str 3 catcher would make them a little harder, but still catching on a 3 or 4 plus.

as a side note my human team vs highelf team
0-12 linemen 50k 6338 -------------------- 0-12 linemen 6348 70k
0-2 throwers 70k 6338 pass surehands---0-2 thrower 6348 pass 80k
0-4 catcher 90k 8337 catch dodge---------0-4 catcher 8347 catch 90k
0-4 blitzer 80k 7338 block-----------------0-2 blitzer 7348 block 100k

so elf linemen are +20 k for +1 agi and dodge access (proven to be worth it when you consider elf peak TR and human peak tr on fumbbl)

throwers are +10 for agi access, and +1 agi, but loses surehands, which matters far less with agi 4 anyway

catchers are -1 agi +dodge, clearly worse than a high elf catcher, who would pass up an agi+ for the dodge skill during development on an agi 3 player, after all.

blitzers are +20k for agi +1, see linemen.

i think humans still need the extra positionals to even up for how much better elves are at the same passing type game.

they would be very good in tourneys, maybe moving up to just below skaven, chaos dwarves, and undead. but this is league houserules, so i don't care so much about tourney impact.

[Munkey]

Would have to agree that Humans seem a little underpowered from past experience, most of my league seems to agree. Not terrible though, just a bit below parr.

One of my league mates thought about ST3 Catchers for the team but we're not sure - it makes sense fluffwise in my opinion (more so than ST3 Elf Catchers) but I can imagine them becoming an additional 4 Blitzers (faster and with Blodge) rather than Catchers. Not sure how much more powerful this would make the team though, i'll be interested to hear how you get on if/when you get the league up and running.

One thing I did think of along these lines was dropping Dodge on them so it takes more skills to get to Blodge (same as on the High Elf Catchers) and reduces the other more diverse skills taken if they go this route.

Not sure if you'd need to drop the Blitzers to 80k as well, you'd be allowing easier purchasing of your newly powered up Catchers by going that route.

[Gus]

don't look at FUMB-cherrypicking-BL for stats regarding elves =)

[absent1]

yeah i should probably bump blitzers back to 90k to be on the safe side (people are still going to say it's overpowered on here though, of course... , they wouldn't want their elf team to only be as strong as humans after all... )

and i use my high elf blodge catchers as catchers, and the block tackle blitzers as blitzers, i don't forsee a huge difference here, nice to have the option to actually block with your positional player though.

i'll let you know what my league thinks of the changes, if they are too good we will know pretty fast, i think it would unbalance them right from the get go if it was unbalanced (like first 10 games we will be able to tell).

[Duke Jan]

Where does this come from? Humans are the most balanced team around and they can be played very effectively by good coaches. Good coaches will be terrible with a boosted human team. The lesser coaches would still suck at playing them.

[absent1]

humans are at about #13 on both the fumbbl and naf stats... only people below them on both list are goblins, haflings, ogres, vampire, chaos, and nurgle, and we all know that at least chaos and nurgle develop into machines latter in leagues, where as humans develop clearly worse than a high elf team, so really the only teams humans have clear cut advantage over is hafling, gobo, vampire, and ogre, the joke teams.....

and i personaly feel they are a very weak team.

[darthvincor]

I like the idea of black orcs in a chaos dwarf team, as it would be historically correct.

And I agree with the Duke, in that humans are already well balanced.
What other team can start with a starting line-up that can easily include the skills block, dodge, catch, pass and surehands?

[Duke Jan]

My point is that humans are difficult to coach, but when coached correctly they are nearly unbeatable:

Humans (2) - BloodBowl 2003; Halfling DinnerMug 2004

Are you seriously saying that a team that's won the BloodBowl is underpowerd?

[gken1]

My point is that humans are difficult to coach, but when coached correctly they are nearly unbeatable:

I think playing agianst humans is one the easier matchups you can hope for.