changes for chaos dwarf and human rosters

[Xtreme]

You should include the Ogre in your comparison to High Elves.

I guess I don't see the Humans as a weaker team. If I ever get mine painted up I'll be playing them in tournaments again.

[Tim]

Are you seriously saying that a team that's won the BloodBowl is underpowerd?

That specific Human team consisted of Luthor, Griff, a couple of linemen and a few RRs ... not really a typical human team for a balance discussion

I've been thinking of Humans alot lately and why they seems to be underperforming. I think on average (NAF/Fumbbl Stats) they are undercoached, meaning that many rookies try them and once they get better they go off to more "interesting" races. A poor and pretty old set of figs does not help either, maybe this will change once the new ones are out.

Still i think you should be able to play the humans similar to a Norse team running a very mobile cage with some catchers spread out as offensive side options. The Humans lack the Norse hitting power, but should be a bit faster and more sturdy. The main problem of the humans is the ST2/AG3 combo of the catchers ... while you can send out a blodge ST3 or AG4 catcher on his own and the opponent will have to use 2 players to tie them up to prevent him blitzing free or simply dodging away, you can mark a human catcher with one player and still have a small but decent chance that he fails dodging out.

So if you want to strenghten them, the Catchers are a good starting point imo. However, remember that the Humans are the only team that get 4 of blitzer AND catcher positionals (not counting Gobbos on Orc teams as catchers) and additionally have the benefit split skill access of AG/ST on them (something that Elves do not have).

[absent1]

but if you do count gobo's as catchers on the orc team... well the orc team is good, but hardly overpowered, and it is pretty much better than humans because it gets 4 catcher types, 4 blitzer types, a big guy, and a thrower... just like humans... but it gets 4 str 4 players. i think giving humans a str 3 catcher matches these teams up pretty well.

[atropabelladonna]

i want to houserule the human and chaos dwarf rosters for a small league i'm going to run, it's probably going to be an open league
changes in orange

and chaos dwarves
0-12 hobgob
0-6 chaos dwarves
0-2 black orcs
0-1 bull centaur
no big guy

For our league, we already house ruled the chaos dwarves to

0-12 Hob goblins
0-2 Goblins
0-2 Black Orcs
0-4 Chaos Dwarves
0-2 Bullcentaurs

reroll 70K.

As per GKens's suggestion, this puts a minimum of 3 hobgoblins on the field. The chaos dwarves are currently 3 wins, 4 loses, having some bad luck with 2 chaos dwarves dying and one Black orc retired. Surprisingly, no hobgoblins have been hurt yet, nor even missed a game.

We didn't make any changes to the humans yet, although we agree they are slightly below standard.

What if you made thier rerolls cost 40K to represent humans being so well trained? Or if you increased the move or AV of the catcher instead of ST or AG?

[Gus]

well, if amazons can have 40k RR, i can't see why not =)
and i'd even be in favour of raising the cost of RR for the amazons (or delete the team altogether =) )

[absent1]

i'll tell ya all how the str 3 human catchers work out in our league. thanks for talking with me about it, appretiate all the info.

[Duke Jan]

but if you do count gobo's as catchers on the orc team... well the orc team is good, but hardly overpowered, and it is pretty much better than humans because it gets 4 catcher types, 4 blitzer types, a big guy, and a thrower... just like humans... but it gets 4 str 4 players. i think giving humans a str 3 catcher matches these teams up pretty well.

But Gobbos don't start with catch and have a movement of 6, not 8 like a human catcher. Those 4 ST4 players are slow and don't have block, plentuy of options for them to be ineffective, you can't field the maximum of positionals, and the re-rolls of Orcs are more expensive.

I Still don't consider humans underpowered, just difficult to play. They can play a bit like elves, they survive better, hit a bit like dwarves and have access to all skills catagories but mutations. The only "negative" point with humans is that you need a more defensive strategy than with elves because ball handling is harder, but you can afford it since you've got the means for defensive play.

[Duke Jan]

I've been thinking of Humans alot lately and why they seems to be underperforming. I think on average (NAF/Fumbbl Stats) they are undercoached, meaning that many rookies try them and once they get better they go off to more "interesting" races. A poor and pretty old set of figs does not help either, maybe this will change once the new ones are out.

Does this mean you'll go Human once the new models are out? You should be able to pull that off

[absent1]

not to beat a dead horse, but i did finaly decide on
_ chaos dwarves lose mino
_ human catchers to AV8

and thats my final answer

[Mattchaos]

I think the problem you'll encounter with humans is that some people will use catcher as blitzers, and blitzers as blockers.
A way to change this a little is to make catchers 7 3 3 7 dodge catch ... but keep the price for humans blitzers.

Black orcs are fine in a chaos dwarf team, but only in past a good idea would be to change other rosters to reflect this return to the past ... but I dunno how

[absent1]

i meant, catchers go to
8 2 3 8 catch, dodge

so they won't be blitzing much

[Mattchaos]

For me it's not OK so ... how can this weak guy (only 2 in strength) run so fast ( 8 ) with this big armor (8 again )
So I would say NO !

[Colin]

If you look at most teams, those that have fast players (8 or 9 MA), you will notice that they are balanced out with lower AV (whether the ST is 2 or not).

[gken1]

0-12 Hob goblins
0-2 Goblins
0-2 Black Orcs
0-4 Chaos Dwarves
0-2 Bullcentaurs

reroll 70K.

that looks fun to play. got some flavor

[Xtreme]

not to beat a dead horse, but i did finaly decide on
_ chaos dwarves lose mino
_ human catchers to AV8

and thats my final answer

And now I agree with you.