human catchers...st 2

[Gus]

wow wow, hold on there... not every team has a tackle/mighty blow. not any team has more than once (because, as humans, you ALSO have mighty blow, and you should have DP, and you could toast the blitzer). and nobody has such a blitzer that is easily accessible to blitz that particular player at tha particular time. saying you get rid of blodge+sidestep+shadowing "simply by sending a killer" after it is wrong.

[Bizzy]

Pair off. If your human Blitzers stay on the line fighting ppl then they get tied up by Big Bash Boys the other teams have. The ONLY advantage a human catcher has against an assassin is the high MA. I can go on Necros b/c that is what I play. I use Zombies and Flesh Golems to tie up the line. This could be against linemen or blitzers. Then send the Werewolves after catchers. They can match off with speed have the St advantage and they have claws. IF they have tackle all the better. Wights and Ghouls can face off.

All I am saying is you can always tie up the good players. On an Elven team the elves have usually a good enough MA to escape a shadower or just take a 2 Dice block on the catcher. On a bashy team they have enough guard to cancel the Human guard. If both teams are played properly then you can prolly pick off a catcher or 2.

[gken1]

i'm sorry, but you can stick this "silly" remark up wherever you want =)
as for this being off-topic: bite me.

lol. you can't just say ogres aren't human. Humans have an ogre and it figures into their team balance.

Catchers work as they are and the human team is fine. The coach must really force the opponent to play the game they don't want to play. That's the trick

[Skummy]

I thought this thread was about human catchers? Didn't folks want to improve them becasue they thought the team was too weak? Why on earth take away the Ogre, who's the only thing that lets them hang with the bashy teams?

I really regret the removal of the Ogre on the Dwarf team, if this is what it comes down to.

[Gus]

All I am saying is you can always tie up the good players. On an Elven team the elves have usually a good enough MA to escape a shadower or just take a 2 Dice block on the catcher. On a bashy team they have enough guard to cancel the Human guard. If both teams are played properly then you can prolly pick off a catcher or 2.

but, somehow, you are assuming that the human team cannot tie up your "assassins" right ? sorry, but i think you can, we'll have to disagree here.

lol. you can't just say ogres aren't human. Humans have an ogre and it figures into their team balance.

well, guess what ? Ogres AREN'T human. i mean, they may be part of the current human roster, but that doesn't make them HUMANS. as the treeman isn't a WOOD ELF because it is on the WOOD ELF roster.
and as for the fact that it belongs to the roster, the dwarves are there to testify how definitive it might be.

Catchers work as they are and the human team is fine. The coach must really force the opponent to play the game they don't want to play. That's the trick

if you're trying to convince me the human team is good and catchers don't suck, you're wasting your time: i've stated since post #1 that i thought they were ok.

I thought this thread was about human catchers? Didn't folks want to improve them becasue they thought the team was too weak? Why on earth take away the Ogre, who's the only thing that lets them hang with the bashy teams?

well, for me, AG4 fits the fluff as much as ST4... and my POV was that the team could be pushed even further in the direction of "all normal with skill/team-RR", thus deleting the BG as abnormal.

look, THAT was my WHOLE proposal. taking off the ogre but bumping the ST of the catchers. please DO read the whole posts before saying something against someone, that's REALLY annoying, having to repeat the same thing lest people don't discuss the same thing as you do...

edited.

[Skummy]

well, for me, AG4 fits the fluff as much as ST4... and my POV was that the team could be pushed even further in the direction of "all normal with skill/team-RR", thus deleting the BG as abnormal.

look, THAT was my WHOLE proposal. taking off the ogre but bumping the ST of the catchers. please DO read the whole posts before saying something against someone, that's REALLY annoying, having to repeat the same thing lest people don't discuss the same thing as you do...[/quote]

Yes, we have a name for that Gus. It's called "threadjacking."

Oh, and for someone who was not 6 hours ago complaining about "uncivilities" in this thread, you're awful quick to be throwing around the flames.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

[Gus]

threadjacking ?
if we cannot talk about anything but the catchers, how are we supposed to balance the "new version" of the catcher ? the removal of the Ogre was my answer to balancing ST3 catchers, like it or not. this was no threadjacking. please avoid saying such things in the future, it's a good way to not get flamed by people, not attacking them for nothing.

edited

[Bizzy]

I agree with Gus. Its an odd occassion but removal of the Ogre and adding 4 ST3 players balances them a lot more.

[Skummy]

I couldn't disagree more - and yes Gus, it is a pretty clear instance of threadjacking. Look at the first page. This thread is about changing human catchers, not about rearranging the entire balance of a human team.

Changing two positionals is just not going to happen on a proven team.

You're railing against Ogres on a human team. It's a whole different issue than the Catchers. And the way you reacted to me for pointing it out says a lot more about your character than it does for your argument.

[Bizzy]

Skummy thinking about a human team. The catchers recieving a higher point of ST makes them more of a competitor. So they get 2 dice blocks against a player having only one assist and it makes you less scared to take a blitz action with one b/c they dont crunch as easily. If this was changed and the Ogre was kept on the team then the humans would probably be over powered and too strong because of the Blitzers and an Ogre. I understand both your logic and Gus'. I happen to think that if a human catcher had St 3 he could be fielded on Defence more often.

4 Blitzers
4 catchers
1 Thrower
2 Linemen

that is offence because everyone being ST3 no threat of losing 4 men.

On Defence change the thrower to an additional lineman and thats a pretty sick Human roster. If you had an ogre as well you can drop an additional Lineman. You see how sick a roster looking like that can be.

That incredible speed, bash power, and a ST 5 guy is too much.

[Skummy]

I understand what you are saying, and fundamentally disagree. Removing a player with exceptional strength, armor, and strength skill access would really change the way this team plays, especially on defence.

Changing the ST of human catchers *and* removing the Ogre would make them a less agile version of the High Elf roster, and that is very boring.

Humans are a very strong roster as is - perhaps rethinking your strategies with them is the answer as opposed to changing the roster.

[Gus]

oh god, you just ASK to be bashed, right ? =/

look, it is well known that balance is not something bound to individual players. it has been agreed by, what, all the posters but you, that when we discuss changes, it is ok to throw in an additional change to balance it out. you cannot get it, fine, i don't care about your inaptitude to understand things, but don't go around annoying me for that.

[Mattchaos]

anyone think maybe the human catchers should be st 3?

This was the first post

To this question I answer YES and not for balance reasons, because if human team is not top tier, this roster is certainly not as bad as some people say.
But as said a lot humans should be strength 3.
The point is right : elves catchers and skaven's gutter runners should maybe be strength 3 too, purely roleplay wise.
For me those three catchers are "errors" of conception because of this.
We are ok, all humans are strength 3 except the catcher of "human" roster, roster you can call "imperial" or "pro" as you like.
Similary all elves from 4 rosters are strength 3 except the catcher from wood elves roster.
And all skavens are strength 3 except gutter runner ... all skavens : hum not really, if you take a look to unofficials rosters, you'll see that some other skavens (slaves ...) are strength 2. Skavens are more small and not as strong as humans, you can easily imagine some of them as stunty players.
Moreover gutter runners are agility 4, and all skavens are 3 ... So gutter runner are totally differents from the basic skaven, they are really a sort of cultural exception that we should forget. Something like a small ninja playing Blood Bowl.

So we have two catchers, one human and one wood elf, but if you try to make the wood elf strength 3, the balance will be a far more difficult than for the human : 9 3 4 7 is maybe too much no ? And 8 3 4 7 is high elves catchers, and the advantage of wood elves is the move, so what should we do ...
A second point is that were humans only have "strong" people playing blood bowl (take a look to rugbymen or american football players they are all in good physical condition) elves can be more weak because their game play is totally different.
So we can keep this exception ... but why keeping two exceptions were you can have only one.
So let's try to change the human catcher's strength to 3, we can balance it !

[David Bergkvist]

Most of us who are posting on this thread probably have ST 1. Human catchers aren't weak by average human standards (definately not as weak as a child as someone posted); it's just that linemen, throwers and blitzers are even stronger.

[gken1]

oh god, you just ASK to be bashed, right ? =/

look, it is well known that balance is not something bound to individual players. it has been agreed by, what, all the posters but you, that when we discuss changes, it is ok to throw in an additional change to balance it out. you cannot get it, fine, i don't care about your inaptitude to understand things, but don't go around annoying me for that.

your posts don't make any sense. first you agree that human catchers are fine, then you say they shouldn't have an ogre.

So you think humans are overpowerd?? which is contrary to what everyone else has been posting.

If you're gonna make a suggestion, maybe it should be towards the benefit of the humans....