Human team without Catchers

[Fronko]

Hello everyone!

Tonight, a new face-to-face league starts, 8 guys in it. I thought of choosing humans, but the bashy attempt:

3 Blitzers
2 Throwers
5 Linemen
1 Ogre
3 RRs
7 FF

This means no catchers for start. I would have preferred to have 4 blitzers and 4 RRs, but both seems impossible without sacrificing the ogre which I definitely want from game one on.

I also want both throwers, as I will be trying a block-heavy, pocketbased running style with a decent anti-stripball capability, smashing through the defense rather than going around it.

Next purchases will be Apo, then bltz no 4, then RR/catchers/replacing lost bltz.

I wonder if the chosen setup is well suited for that approach or would you suggest otherwise. Please, only suggest modifications to the given roster, I am not interested in something along the lines of:

"Hey, dude, playing humans is only doable with including catchers to pass and run!"



So, if you think you spotted a flaw in my setup, combined with the style of play, let me know.

Thanks.

[JaM]

I think it's very do-able, because now you can give your blitzers/linemen skills wich will help protecting the catcher later on (guard, tackle, block, etc.).
Also this gives you the chance to get that accurrate thrower, if needed. Lone catchers are toast, protect them ! So, get them later on when the rest is up to speed, too.

Looks good to me !

[bubb]

Dude, playing humans is only doable......nevermind.

I played this exact team with the roster identical in a challenge league some time ago. I opted to play the same style you have indicated.

It was actually VERY effective. You would be surprised how well the lineman did when you have an ogre next to them.

You are going to have some fun because nobody expects that style.

I never even thought about buying catchers. The blitzers are the heart and soul of this team. Once you have all 4, I saved money to replace nigglers and the like to keep the TR down a bit.

[Fronko]

Yeah, that is exactly the point. Of course, its a known conundrum "Humans bash vs flair and flair vs bash" but maybe I can turn the tables and "bash vs bash and bash even more against flair". Off course, as soon, as the other bash gets better at bashing, I hopefully have a number of catchers to outflair them again ... But I guess, we are talking 6,7 games before that happens and until then I hope to surprise them guys.

Dude, playing humans is only doable......nevermind.

I would have almost bet a fair amount of money, that somebody tried exactly this.

[bubb]

Well....as long as you get some good skill rolls and use those options well you should be as close to as good as the bashers and quicker to boot.

You won't have much flair skill if you opt to go the pound it route since your skill choices will be geared toward rough style as opposed to evasive style.

I would think that adding catchers to this particular team (..and this particular team only) would be akin to adding goblins to an orc team. For speend and elusiveness

[Fronko]

Yeah, I was thinking block/DP, later tackle for linos,

blitzers go guard/mighty blow/tackle,

the throwers also block, dump-off, instead of the classic accurate/safethrow route. Probably add accurate to the mix just to be sure. Oh, I wanted one of the throwers to get kick early, instead of one of the linos.

doubles will be used for more guard, occasionally frenzy (bltz) and dauntless.

Or is there something I missed?

[bubb]

I wouldn't give kick to a thrower and here is why. You need that block/dump off thrower. He is pivotal to your running game.

For you other thrower, if I am reading your stategy right, should have the classic passer skills for when you bring in the catchers. You said that by the time the bashers overtake you, you wanted to have the catchers to outflair. Well, if nobody can get the ball to them accurately they are pretty worthless.

Your other skill choices are right on.

[Fronko]

Concerning the throwers:

This is the point where I am not as yet sure of. I guess I need to spend some more time thinking about.

The main reason to have kick on the thrower is, that a kick lineman is a waste in some sort of way. A standard lineman either gets block, then he is more effective at marking/blocking opposing players. He gets DP and - well, I guess we all know, what his purpose is then. But if he gets kick, he MUST be on the pitch on defensive drives, he MUST be set up in the middle, where i would rather have the two throwers and two blitzers, with a blitzer/lino combo covering the wings. But in all other respects, the kick lineman will be pretty useless, as he will probably not even get the occasional cas points, due to lack of blk.

The reason for kick on the thrower is, that he is on the pitch anyway, he is in the center anyway, and according to him (hopefully) collecting SPPs rather quickly, can probably take that extra skill in his progression.

So I was thinking of kick, then accurate, then safe throw for the "flair part" thrower, block/dump-off/additional skills for the "bash/run" thrower.

Bad idea?

[Falkom]

Well I tried exactly the same Cockerel... and I was doing fine in first 8-10 games (we play long 26 game league ). After that other, especially bashy teams start to make problems to me but than I got few catchers and that add a whole new dimension to my tactic.

Again usually my catchers don't get more than 3 skills before they get beaten to death... but nevertheless they give you versatility especially as your blitzers/lineman will be well developed.

Regarding throwers I have one with block/dump off/accurate and second one accurate/safe throw/strong arm/ag 4. Usually first one is ball handler and second one is back up... so if opponents manage to get blitz first one I just dump ball to second one and I am ready for some passing game in my next turn (and my catchers are already down the field).

It works very well for me, but maybe its because I was very lucky cause my humans started to mutate to elves (I have 1 thrower, 2 blitzers and 1 lineman with AG 4 ) but again my Ogre who played about 23 games have only 14 SP

[bubb]

So I was thinking of kick, then accurate, then safe throw for the "flair part" thrower, block/dump-off/additional skills for the "bash/run" thrower.

Bad idea?

Not after your reply!

[Mad Jackal]

Fronko.

As for the kick lineman. I'd put him on the field before either of your throwers.

My reasoning is this. You're not trying to play a quick strike defense. (Rapidly score on a turn over) from what I can tell- so your thrower with pass and dump off, or accurate will be a 6 3 3 8 player anyway..........but he'll cost 70k instead of 50k - And he's your sure hands protection from the teams that want to strip ball.

When I'm faced with a team low on Sure hands I target them while on offense so that late game, my strip ball pieces WILL have a shot. -So your thrower will be relegated to kicking and what? Providing assists and picking up the occassional loose ball his partner doesn't get to?

Your thrower will get plenty (enough) of spp on offense in my opinion....

So give kick to a lineman. I'd second skill him at sure hands to replace the lost pick-up ball ability, but tackle or strip ball works too. -Your throwers don't block, neither does he have to. Leader is an ok doubles skill, or dauntless, guard... Lots of possible lino developments that don't interfere with your throwers really being good offensive players.

-If you DO want 2 throwers on def anyway (your call) then I'd still put a lino with kick in the middle and move a blitzer to the outside to replace. I doubt he'd be moving more that 3 squares towards the sidelines from where you were going to put him in the middle.. And That isn't too far out of coverage - especially when you've got a kicker to dictate the ball either towards that side- or away from it. again, your call.

Humans this way are fun, I've had a go at it a few times as well.


Just my few cents. I think putting kick on a lineman to preserve your thrower- and letting an unskilled lino stand the LOS until he skills up for block is the way to go.

[Brokje]

I recently started a team:

1 Ogre
4 BLitzers
1 Thrower
5 Linemen
3 Rerolls
5 FF

Starting with all 4 blitzers ascertains that after the apo I can get catchers. The thrower is for failed pick ups, and hopefully (some of) the linemen have a skill when the first catcher comes, because then most of the spp's will go to them with alll that speed, catch and dodge.

[OdoGoodgrubb]

I actually played in a tournament with a team almost identical to the one Fronko lists; they did not do well, but that probably had more to do with poor coaching and some very bad die rolling (I failed to pick up the ball with my throwers about six times in one game and twice in the tourney I had players fall over trying to go-for-it into the end zone and did not score at all on either opportunity).

I agree that the roster with two throwers helps in a couple of ways: it allows you more options on offense, and gives you more security should your opponent target one for bashing.

Many people scoff at humans as “easyâ€

[Fronko]

Ok, update on how the first two games went, Twice skaven as opposition, lost first 1:2, wiht almost all critical rolls failing (Nuffle is a bitch, you know), second was a 1:1 draw, with both me and my oppo not being too happy with how it went. In the end we were both happy we didnt lose.

For the hitting part: Except for my ogre, who constantly kept being boneheaded, cas'ing was ok, though it kicked in too late in both games. Both skaven teams had no reserves (but a rat ogre), still during the first halves I could not establish number superiority, in the first I even was down a player or two all the time, it started with my lineman being sent off on a 6+, after fouling the rat ogre, not even scratching armor.

Then, second half I gained the upper hand, but it was too late for a win in both games. On to top that of, I couldnt buy an apo after first game and in the second, last turn, last action of the game the rat ogre blitzed one of my throwers, killing it.

Sooooo:

Now I am down to 10 players, but got the apo no. I have one blitzer levelling, he rolled 6+4, so I probably am going to take the MA (or better MBlow/Guard?). No other level-ups, but a number of players close to it.

As my thrower is dead, I am not sure whether to get a blitzer next or a replacement thrower. I guess I will be going for the blitzer.

That off course means kick for a lino, as I am going for a block/dump-off thrower first.

Opinions anyone?

[MickeX]

I'd say that having a catcher on pitch makes it easier to bash:

- he creates options that makes it harder for the opponents to concentrate on bashing
- he can dodge away and move 8 to give an assist where you need it the most
- dodge makes up for AV7 as long the opponent hasn't got tackle