Problems with the Skaven Defense

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:52 pm

Hello,

iÂ´ve got a problem.
IÂ´m playing Skaven for the first time in our league. I started with a rat ogre, 4 gutter runners, 2 storm vermins and the rest linemen.
Okay, i think even this was not so well chosen.

Besides this, i lost my rat ogre in an awesome both down in my first game...so i bought a new one in game 4 and lost him again in game 5.
So now i played 8 games. My best player is a Gutter Runner with Blodge and AG5 and ST 3....(not bad he?

) and a storm vermin with block, RSC and mighty blow. The other three GR have Blodge and SideStep, although i have 2 throwers, one with a big Hand.

Okay...finally my problem:
It isnÂ´t a problem for me to score a touchdown, in deed i made 17 and have the best offense team at the moment. But HOW SHOULD I PREVENT GETTING TDs....

What are the best next skills for my GR and SV...and should I save my money for the third Rat Ogre?

thanx 4 your help.....!!!

Abator · Post by **Abator** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:13 pm

Unfortunately, defence for the skaven isn't that great. Your best bet is to get kick and drop it into a corner of the field. Then pressure the ball. If you can prevent your opponent from forming some sort of cage for the ball, then it's not to hard to strip it from him. Once the cage is formed, you might as well let them score and get the ball back that way. Trying to break a cage with skaven is near impossible without taking some serious damage.

bubb · Post by **bubb** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:21 pm

How many RR do you have? Can't be many with that starting lineup...

Anyhow....save your money for another RR maybe. I don't know. Not too much info to go on.

For the GR a mix of catch, duantless, sure feet, diving tackle?, shadowing, strip ball, leap.

For the SV get yourself some tackle and guard.

You need to develop some GR into blitzing ball takers. That will help your defense.

What skills do your lineman have? Get DP and kick. Kick to dictate your defense (send it deep on slow teams and close for quick teams) and DP to remove the better offensive players from the game.

I am sure many others will chime in as well but I think I have given you a start.

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:37 pm

i like the idea with the kick skill...

With that startup i do only have 2 rerolls. I know thats not that good.
The problem is that my linemen (if not dying away) doesnt receive that much SPPs. So i given one block, but he died last game...

I think this season i am not the luckiest one.

So you both wouldn`t buy another Rat Ogre as i suppose?!
So perhaps a Gutter Runner wih Strip Ball would help?

Whats with Throwers? Would u give them passing skills as first Skills? As i told, i chose Big Hand, cause i rolled a double.

Finally, how good is pass block? Is it enough to give that skill to just one player? Or is it not really effective?

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:12 pm

I'd have to agree with the kick skill. kick it deep. pray for blitz, and pressure the ball before he forms a cage.

if that fails your best hope is a leaping dauntless gutterrunner...possibly with strip ball. If the ball hits the ground GR's can usally scoop it up and take off.

Reverand Green · Post by **Reverand Green** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:50 am

Defensive Skaven Skills

Kick on a Lineman, Doubles Guard &or Foul Appearnce

Strip Ball & Leap on a GR. Doubles =Dauntless &or Horns

Storm Vermin: Guard & Tackle, Doubles Claw

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:44 pm

thank u all!
I think these were a few very good ideas.

iÂ´m going to test em out!

Thanx again and I wish u all gettin pows 4ever

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:05 pm

The best Skaven defence is their offence. Which means that most of the time, your Skaven are a lot better at scoring than your opponent. The game is won by the team which made the most TD's, so problem solved.

This being said, there are some Skaven specific plays which help preventing your opponent from scoring.

I think the most famous and most succesful is the scramble: Kick the ball deep (as many mentioned: Kick is the first skill you should give to one of your linemen), send some Gutter Runners deep and prevent your opponent from securing the ball!

For this strategy to work, some luck is needed. The ball should drop in an exrtreme point of the field, your opponent positioned his players in a lousy way, he fails in picking up the ball... But this is typically Skaven: Wait for the opportunity to arise, and then take maximum advantage of it.

This means you'll always want to send at least 2 Gutter Runners deep, preferably supported by some Linemen or even Storm Vermin. Maybe it doesn't work one your first or second kick, but something will go wrong on your third kick. At that time, your players are in a position to take advantage of it.

This tactic can be greatly enhanced by targetting some specific key players. Take out the Orc Thrower, the Khemri blitzer with Sure Hands... Lots of these teams will have to start burning RR's to manage their ball handling.

If your opponent did manage to secure the ball in a cage, forget about it with Skaven. Concentrate on taking out some of his players not involved in the cage, and hope he will score quickly. Some pressure should be maintained on the cage by hoovering some of your players around it. But no active breaking of the cage, or your Skaven will get broken!

These tactics are mainly valid against power teams. Against quick or agile teams, things get a lot less structured. As someone else mentioned, you kick the ball close (again using Kick). As you knew where you were going to kick, there is a good possibilty you can flood the ball retrievers if your opponent is so foolish not to pass the ball. If he passes the ball to a more secure position, it is up to you to mark potential ball receivers. Also, formations in these kind of games are a lot less tight. Which means sometimes you'll have a good chance at moving/dodgeing your way to the ball carrier. And blitz it!

The best part about this second type of games is that it allows you to deal out some punishment yourself. Against power teams, Skaven tactics is limited to scoring as much as possible, and trying to avoid getting your chest crushed.

About your team development: That's a very nice Gutter Runner you have (ST3/AG5)! I never buy a Rat Ogre from the beginning. Actually, I only buy it when I've got about 15 players. Did you never get into problems having too few players? My first skill on Storm Vermin is always Tackle. A Thrower getting a double always gets Dodge first, in my opinion. You can give it Big Hand, but what will you do with the ball in all those tackle zones?

bubb · Post by **bubb** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:09 pm

Don't worry so much about a Rat Ogre either. Get your team stable and shored up first (IE: get replacements for nigglers, dead, etc).

Remember - you are deep into the season now and you need a nice big roster. Crunchy mice go quick so having players on the bench to come in are vital...more vital than a rat ogre in my opinion at this stage of the game.

Good luck and have fun!

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:33 pm

wow...this was remarkable...
thanks a lot.

I think u were right. I made some mistakes which canÂ´t be taken away this season. But I think with these good advices I will make the best of it now.

btw...iÂ´ve got problems with the number of my players. I just got twelve and two with nigglings, one missing next game and iÂ´m playing against orcs with 4 blitzers with guard and two lineorcs with tackle *gulp*.
I think i played too riskful this season and so lost a lot of players, and the two rerolls are too less.

Okay, next season i will do a lot better

Thanx again and if anyone even got more advices...postÂ´em

amadoris · Post by **amadoris** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:57 pm

be aggressive.
2stormvermin=2 guard
at least 2 dirty player
guard, claw if you have doubles on lineman.
You've to bash your opponent very hard, like a bashy bashy team. When the number of players go down, it'll be easier the defence

amadoris · Post by **amadoris** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:58 pm

be aggressive.
2stormvermin=2 guard
at least 2 dirty player
guard, claw if you have doubles on lineman.
You've to bash your opponent very hard, like a bashy bashy team. When the number of players go down, it'll be easier the defence

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:01 pm

el sid wrote: This tactic can be greatly enhanced by targetting some specific key players. Take out the Orc Thrower, the Khemri blitzer with Sure Hands... Lots of these teams will have to start burning RR's to manage their ball handling.

And yet you refuse to take a dirty player...

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:46 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote:
el sid wrote: This tactic can be greatly enhanced by targetting some specific key players. Take out the Orc Thrower, the Khemri blitzer with Sure Hands... Lots of these teams will have to start burning RR's to manage their ball handling.
And yet you refuse to take a dirty player...

If "someone" would not kill my Linerats with his Mummies, maybe I could be given the opportunity to give my Linerats Dirty Player!!!

Surely, Tuern, you have no clue who I am talking about here???

Still, I prefer Kick as a first skill on a Linerat. After that, Dirty Player is the way to go.

Until we clash again, RedVenom!