Skaven team, unexperienced coach, unexperienced league

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:02 am

Hello guys, I recently joined a BB league, I never played it before, nor any of the other players of the team. I thought you could give me a hint or two on how to develop my team and also how to use it (well, I kinda figured out already that scoring a lot of points while avoiding contacts would be my better chance to do anything good, but I'm sure there's more to know about these little hyperactive rats

)

I guess I'll just start by showing you how I planned to spend my first million :

5 Linemen
2 Passers
2 Gutter Runner (woot! 9 pts in movement, pretty much my key players)
2 Storm Vermin
0 Rat Ogre (I seriously don't think about buying those anytime soon)
3 Re-roll
No apothecary (I don't know how it works anyway ...)
9 Fan factor (I don't know about it neither, but I like the idea of being the fan-favorite at the beginning hehe)

I guess there are some strenghts and some weaknesses in such a team (11 players only, pretty risky considering the team I have, I reckon), but I'd like to know your opinion about it.

If you can, I'd like to know if there are some quick strategies too that could surprise my opponents, but what really interest me, is to know how I should develop my team. I'm definitely not a good stats technician, so I'd like to know which upgrades would be good for my players. I thought of the Long legs upgrade for at least one of my Gutter Runners as a first upgrade (reaching the touchdown line in one play ... wow!).

The Sewers' !censored! thank you

------------EDIT-------------

Current stats :

Thrower with Dump Off
SV with guard
SV
GR with block, sidestep, shadowing and diving tackle (hehe a real pain in the ass)
GR with block AG5
GR with catch, sure feet and 10MA (guess what's my next skill

)
GR with block
RO with break tackle
LR with block
LR with block
LR with kick
LR with dirty player
LR
LR
LR
4 re-roll
13 Fan factor
2 ass. coachs
2 cheerleaders
apothecary
80k in bank

3-1 against an orcish team
3-2 against a wood elves team (two serious injuries, including -1M to his WD)
2-1 against a wood elves team
3-0 against a chaos team (two casualties!!! the team gave up after this game)
2-0 against an orcish team (two casualties, not even an injury on my side, I'm a lucky bastard!)
2-0 against a wood elves team
2-1 against a wood elves team
2-3 against a dark elves team (well, they won but at least I gave them two niggling injuries and one casualty hehe)
4-0 against Dwarf Team
5-1 against Wood elves
5-2 against orcs

TR : 196

Next purchases (if I don't need to replace any player before) :
Headsplitter
Any missing player

Eh ... I'm gonna waste some money, or just lower my TR by buying Rerolls

...

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:29 am

I'm too lazy, but any of you guys have a link to Narkotik's skaven guide lying around?

Oh, and 2 throwers? Not really worth it.
Some people will tell you not to bother with any, but I think one is good to have on defense.

11 players and no apothecary? Maybe if your first game is halflings.
Actually the trees will kill you, so not even then.

Ravage · Post by **Ravage** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 am

an apo would definitely be a good idea.... trust me, you'll thank yourself later. if a player gets hurt/killed, you have a chance to have that player NOT get hurt/die.

I'd suggest reading the LRB a bit more, and read these two threads here in the "Tactics & Team Development" forum (they're stickied right at the top) for ideas on starting rosters as well as what skills you should give your players as they develop...

"Tr 100 Starting Rosters for Bloodbowl Teams"
"Standard Guidelines to Starting Skills choices for all teams"

and im sure an experience skaven couch should be able to give you some more specific advice.

GL

sven · Post by **sven** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:29 am

hey coach alex,

welcome to tbb, i cant be of much use giving my own tips as i have never played with skaven, but i have read narkotics excellent quide to them and fancy it is pretty much spot on. here is the link incase you cant find it or cant be bovered to look;

viewtopic.php?t=8994&start=0&postdays=0 ... highlight=

hope this helps

phil

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:16 am

i dunno... the guide is a bit 'definitive' in its choices... don't think there are only THOSE options =)

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:02 am

BUt for starters they`ll probably suffice.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:29 pm

as long as you don't lock yourself into them =) i was mainly thinking of the skill choice... emphasizing the development of one-turn scorers, for example, when this is probably the most damaging thing that can happen to both 1) the learning curve 2) the fun of the game.

Kaneda · Post by **Kaneda** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:21 pm

I strongly recommend starting with the 4 Gutter Runners. Obviously you have to play carefully the first two matches, but having the 4 of them from the start it's an incredible advantage over the other teams.

I don't think you need the thrower at all. Use a runner to do the hand-off when you're on offense, and score the other TDs counter attacking with your 4 MA 9 AG 4 dodge players.

Kaneda

kithor2002 · Post by **kithor2002** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:05 pm

Is the team for a short league? Or do you play in a long term league?

If you play in a long term I won't start with two much gutter runners (actually no more than two).Get a lot of lineman first and let them score so that they learn at least one skill (Block) fast.
It isn't that difficult to score with a Gutter Runner and developing him into an incredible scoring machine.
But if your linemen remain unskilled after some games it will be more difficult to win games during the end of your season.

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:14 pm

Thanks for the advices and thank for the link, it will be usefull, don't worry

About taking the passers off the team, I thought at least one would be a good idea, Sure Hands is a skill probably more usefull for throwing the ball than the 4AG of the GR's. And I guess he'll have access to better throwing upgrades than them too.

Now for buying 4 GR's at the beginning, well, it'll mean having less fan-factor and less re-rolls and don't even think about an apothecary. If I could get 3 of them it would already be enough (with three GR's in the other's zone, he won't be able to block them all of course). Plus if I buy four of them, I won't have any choice but to have only 11 players, with four of them with STR2 ... which sucks a little too much.

Kithor's mentioned something I never thought about although, my linemen, with their M7, are valuable players that can score touchdown either, so using them to get my Block skill on some of them shouldn't be that hard I guess, not to mention that it won't take my GR's from scoring at least on TD per game (which I will do if I'm in trouble anyway).

So, I'm taking all of your advices and, yeah, I reckon my team has some weaknesses that I'll try to fix. Thanks and ... you can keep on giving me advices if you want, I'm sure there's more to tell!

Ravage · Post by **Ravage** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:49 pm

sure hands doesnt help for throwing, it only helps you pick up the ball (and it negates strip ball, but you probably wont need to worry about that at least for a bit into the league). an AG3 player with sure hands (allowing them to ReRoll picking up the ball) has an 88% chance of picking the ball up. An AG4 player (your Gutter Runners) without surehands have a ~83% chance of picking up the ball, as with ag4 and the +1 modifier for picking up the ball, they can pick it up on a 2+ as long as they're not in any tackle zones.

just some food for thought

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:21 pm

Ravage wrote:sure hands doesnt help for throwing, it only helps you pick up the ball (and it negates strip ball, but you probably wont need to worry about that at least for a bit into the league). an AG3 player with sure hands (allowing them to ReRoll picking up the ball) has an 88% chance of picking the ball up. An AG4 player (your Gutter Runners) without surehands have a ~83% chance of picking up the ball, as with ag4 and the +1 modifier for picking up the ball, they can pick it up on a 2+ as long as they're not in any tackle zones.

just some food for thought

Well ... I meant the "Pass" skill (or something like that).

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:59 pm

i agree with Kaneda.

it's true that, generally, everyone goes around saying "the most important in a team is the linemen development", "get positionals later before positionals hog all the spps", etc.
most of the time, i agree. however, there are a couple of teams about which i don't agree with that principle. and guess what ? skavens are among those.

i really, really think (now) that skaven linemen should not necessarily be developped that much. in a sense yes, but... let me explain =)
my advice is to get the 4 GRs from the start. you can get astonishing scores rather soon, and quickly skill them up. the goal is to give them Block ASAP. if they get a doubles or stat increase as a first skill, then skill them to Block.
when this is done (and it is often done easily by game 3), you can use them as fantastic ball retrievers, assist providers, etc, and dedicate all your resources to have linos and vermins scoring.
that is how i'd recommand developping a skaven team.
HOWEVER, i am unsure if i would recommand that to a newbie (not meant to be a criticism, i just mean that you don't necessarily master all the subtleties of the game, or cannot necessarily decide who to score with when you want, etc etc).

anyway, this would be my starting roster:

080 8 FF
050 1 apo
120 2 RR
180 2 SV
320 4 GR
250 5 Linos

you can fool around, and adjust to your taste if you want to convert the apoth + 1FF into a RR, or start with only 1 SV and an additional lino, or up to 4 RR (but i advise against less than 7 FF).

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:40 pm

Humf ... as I expected, I get a lot of help, but none going in the same way, which means that basically, all strategy have some good and some bad ... and I'm screwed lol

I guess I'll just try to figure which way fits best with me ...

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:12 pm

I like the skaven thrower, he frees up the GRs to do what they're supposed to while he returns the ball from the backfield.
And a serious passing game option once he gets accurate can't hurt either.
He also doubles decently as a backfield lineman (a one skill-up thrower isn't that much to get attached to) against other agility teams.
More GRs mean more strength 2 on the field after all.
Even when developed for stealing the ball I'm quite happy with only using two of them on defense.

Developed linemen? Well, they're meatshields, but a kicker is a must and maybe a DP.
And yeah, some blockle + claw, but I didn't get that pony either.

Edit: A rat ogre is pretty nice too. Keeps people on their toes near the sidelines. Even with AG 2.