Settle a Troll Question

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:59 pm

Darkson don't be mean.

^^

Snappy_Dresser · Post by **Snappy_Dresser** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:19 am

mbuku wrote:Yes. You are right. With a double it is allowed to take one negatrait.
The Big Guys need double the points of a normal player to get a new developement, so it is quite balanced. There is no Big Guy in the league how is more frightening than a well developed regular player - just stronger...

Just hijacking my own thread. Is this common? It seems as if one would have killing machines on all the teams with BG access in very short order, especially if Loner is removed. Is anyone else playing this way, and if so, does anyone play a team with no BG access?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:25 am

It was a rule under the gold edition (maybe earlier?) that you could remove negative traits on a double.

I think leagues who believe that stars should be recreatable often adopt it.

mbuku · Post by **mbuku** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:14 am

Snappy_Dresser wrote:
mbuku wrote:Yes. You are right. With a double it is allowed to take one negatrait.
The Big Guys need double the points of a normal player to get a new developement, so it is quite balanced. There is no Big Guy in the league how is more frightening than a well developed regular player - just stronger...
Just hijacking my own thread. Is this common? It seems as if one would have killing machines on all the teams with BG access in very short order, especially if Loner is removed. Is anyone else playing this way, and if so, does anyone play a team with no BG access?

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to hijack the thread. I just forgot that this was just a house rule, as we're playing it in this way for years (And I must say that the league is very balanced as the BG don't become that strong as it seems on the first look).

To come back to your question. I would give him Block. Because in the DZ (were the home of a troll should be) you normally block guys with block developement and you're blocked by guys with block developement.
Also when you are rolling 2 dice, you will often roll Skulls and "Both Down" so you need a reroll or your going down...

slup · Post by **slup** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:49 am

With ST6 you do not roll 2D blocks.
Allways go for 3D blocks.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:37 am

bah, i'm happy....pro would have been better overall, except against the lizardmen team. The ability to reroll bad blocks, failed stupidity and all the throwing stuff makes him more versatile.

With some quick math, TTM without pro succeeds 34.7% of the time, while it succeeds 49.18% of the time with the opportunity to get a pro reroll (2.89% chance added for either a successful always hungry or really stupid reroll succeeding and 8.68% chance added for a successful reroll on picking up the gobbo. Those numbers only using pro once per turn and not taking into account the goblins landing).

I'll also post the chances of your blocks causing a turnover here:
3 dice with S6: 3.7%
2 dice with Pro: 4.8%
and for S4+ opponents to the S6 troll:
2 dice with S6: 11.1%

Not too much in favour of the S6 there.

Lets look at failing stupidity:
S6: 83.3%
Pro: 90.3%

So almost consistent.

Don't feel like working out the attacker down stats, but I'm fairly confident that 3D isn't much better than 2D with Pro.

Now, with a line of Black Orcs with Guard, 3d blocks for the S5 troll aren't too hard to come by either.

Oh well, he can keep his S6 troll

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:12 am

All the stats are in the blocking article I wrote.

The point of S6 is really 2 fold. One he's much better defensively (this is the important thing a lot of people forget about it) and secondly what's he going to be like with some more skills?

Cloggy · Post by **Cloggy** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:20 pm

Guard and break tackle next, assuming no more doubles and he'll be a right pain in the ass, being able to apply that crucial assist in difficult situations. Lovely!

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:07 pm

Double spp cost for big guys and removal of nega-traits - sounds like the short lived 'gold edition' of blood bowl that came out a few years ago.

mbuku - if your league's still using this I'd really advise switching to the latest living rule book rules. Gold edition was rubbish.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:53 pm

ianwilliams wrote:All the stats are in the blocking article I wrote.

The point of S6 is really 2 fold. One he's much better defensively (this is the important thing a lot of people forget about it) and secondly what's he going to be like with some more skills?

ian, I took the blocking stats from your article, but didn't see any 3 dice block stats. Defensively he's not much better since he's still on a line with some guard Black orcs, and if he gets more skills, I don't think the strength would improve him more.

BTW, for everyone who used "what if he got another double" as an argument for strength, there's alot of extra things to take for a troll with pro. Off the top of my head, there's block (which is better defensively than S6), tackle, spring back, dodge, etc.. which would all be awesome on a troll.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:41 pm

Have a look here - http://www.irwilliams.com/ecbbl/blocking.php

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:47 am

wow, so 68% for 2D pro vs 70% for 3d nothing

I think I like the Pro better (remember, you need to include that the S6 troll will be really stupid 7% of the time more, though the pro troll couldn't use the reroll on his block).

Snappy_Dresser · Post by **Snappy_Dresser** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:04 am

Yeah, but a ST Troll is so much sexier. And that's really what we're here for, right? To pick up Blood Bowl groupies?

Hmm?

Oh.

...WHAT DO YOU MEAN GIRL DON'T TALK TO BOYS WITH MINIATURES?!?

MattShepherd · Post by **MattShepherd** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:31 am

Minature whats?

chunky04 · Post by **chunky04** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:54 am

The getting rid of a negatrait and big guys need double spps to skill was Jervis' original iteration of the big guy rules. It originally debuted on the net in the old Blood Bowl mailing list I believe, along with ally rules (big guys have obviously progressed much farther than allies). I think it was first published in the original Blood Bowl Compendium its definitely in there anyways, I was reading it the other day.

This was well before the ill-fated Gold Edition.