Dump Off Vs Pass Block....

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:23 pm

hopefully passblock will be improved this October to increase the number of interceptions.

PB is considered to be underpowered by an number of people, and you'll want it to be even weaker, by removing the PB option with a Dump Off? If you do that, why don't remove the skill entirely, because no one will ever take that skill again!

gallowin · Post by **gallowin** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:29 pm

PB is considered to be underpowered by an number of people, and you'll want it to be even weaker, by removing the PB option with a Dump Off? If you do that, why don't remove the skill entirely, because no one will ever take that skill again!

I don't see where there is a huge impact here. Dump Off only works when that one player gets hit. Pass Block works whenever your opponent takes a pass action. Besides, the pass is already under a -1 or -2 TZ from the block about to be made.

Dump off isn't that difficult to defend against. Anticipate by covering possible receivers before blitzing. Save one player to scoop up the ball when their receivers don't catch it.

Pass block isn't losing that much from a skill that hardly gets used.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:42 pm

Yep, pass block loses practically nothing if it is not allowed on dump off. Which has always been the case, so actually pass blocks loses nothing.

Pass block is an effective skill and worth the while, but it definitely should be allowed when prone and in conjuction with jump up.

BTW. I've said it before, but IF somebody thinks that the amount of interceptions can be increased by a.better handoff or b. easier interceptions THEN that somebody is WRONG.

If there's something unclear about that, refer to http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... c&start=14

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:52 pm

For the above example of the Dump-Off pass 'always' being at -1 or -2 from TZs... that's not necessarily true. Dump-Off can benefit from Accurate or Nerves of Steel. Odds are that, by the time a passer takes Dump-Off, he's going to have one or both so Dump-Offs are pretty risk-free unless an opponent plans pretty darn well to defend it.

gallowin · Post by **gallowin** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 9:54 pm

Cervidal wrote:For the above example of the Dump-Off pass 'always' being at -1 or -2 from TZs... that's not necessarily true. Dump-Off can benefit from Accurate or Nerves of Steel. Odds are that, by the time a passer takes Dump-Off, he's going to have one or both so Dump-Offs are pretty risk-free unless an opponent plans pretty darn well to defend it.

Sorry, I meant that at least 1-2 opponent's will be on the player exerting a -1 or -2 due to tackle zones and this will count against them for Dump Off. If they're lucky enough to have accurate and nerves of steel then all the better.

But Dump off isn't just a skill for passers. I can see a blitzer with Dump off receiving the ball on kick offs and moving it up the field until they Dump it off when they're hit. Waste of doubles IMO but adds an interesting flavor to the game.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:08 am

It'd be a pretty viable tactic on an Elf team, especially HE. Could you imagine four elves waiting to hit someone open downfield, one of them with the ball, all four of them with Dump-Off? I could see this being pretty viable, especially if you devoted two of your Lion Warriors to the task. Would there even be a way to defend this? It's not even that difficult to put together, requiring four skills, two of them doubles.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 11:28 am

Rephrase passblock rules to more clearly illustrate that it's to be used during a pass action and all will be well. I think this is the intent of "announces that one of his players is going to pass the ball"

As for passblock never being used - come and play me some time.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm

On a related note, if I have 4 players with dump off and they are hit in an helpful manner, I could pass the ball from one to the other in a chain, potenially scoring?

I'd say no, but on reading the skill again I can't see anything that prevents this. Or does it use the "1pass per turn" convention", even though it's the opponents turn?

I know you'd have to be lucky for this to happen but I just wondered.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 9:52 pm

Heck yeah they could. It'd be nearly impossible to pull off, though. That'd assume you keep dumping off to players who are in position to be blocked, seeing as your opponent can only blitz once per turn. It would also assume you have players armed with Dump-Off stringing all the way down field.

SixFootDwarf · Post by **SixFootDwarf** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:27 pm

I COMPLETELY agree with Galak.

Are you really serious?? Wanting to use Pass Block on YOUR turn? *shakes his head* Just think about it for a bit....

*walks away muttering*

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:16 am

I happen to disagree with him. Aside from an apparent decree from above (no offense intended, though, chief) there seems to be little in the rules to back up not letting Pass Block be used in any turn. The skill itself does not place restriction upon team turn and a Dump-Off is a pass action.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:48 am

Cervidal wrote:I happen to disagree with him. Aside from an apparent decree from above (no offense intended, though, chief) there seems to be little in the rules to back up not letting Pass Block be used in any turn. The skill itself does not place restriction upon team turn and a Dump-Off is a pass action.

Okay let me restate ... I believe that Pass Block is only usuable with a Pass Action, and yes I'm aware that Pass Block does not exactly say it only works with actions, but it is my belief that this was clearly the intent.

Now Dump Off is CLEARLY not a Pass Action. A Pass Action is an event during a turn and can only be used once during a turn. However in theory you could Dump Off 11 times in one turn, so clearly Dump Off is not a Pass Action, it is a special out of sequence skill.

I'll add this one to the October list ... I think it requires a very minor rewrite. Instead of saying "pass the ball", Pass Block should say "take a Pass Action".

Galak

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:06 am

Hmm....

Pass Block is a skill, and not a Move Action, but because the description of the skill says so, you still have to dodge and move USING THE NORMAL RULES.

Dump Off is a skill, and not a Pass Action, but because the description of the skill says so, you still have to throw the ball USING THE NORMAL THROW RULES. When you look at the interception rules, they apply whenever a ball is thrown.

For consistency, either let PB be used on a Dump Off, OR don't and let a player be allowed to move three squares on a Pass Block without the normal moving rules.

Unless you want to reward defensive skill more than offensive skills....

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:18 am

Galak, dump off doesn't say anything about an action, but neither does pass block, so your point is moot.

Pass block allows you to move 3 squares when a pass is declared, dump off is a pass, end of discussion.

No need to rewrite the rules, they're clear enough as it is.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:26 am

Zombie,

The reason I see the need for a rewrite is I really don't think a Dump Off SHOULD be able to be Pass Blocked.

I have to agree that as currently worded that Pass Block can be used on Dump Off ... but that's just wrong. Dump Off is something that I do when I'm about to become a pancake ... its very quick.

Pass Block should not work against that.

Galak

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Dump Off Vs Pass Block....

Well...

Re: Well...

Think about what?

Re: Think about what?