Just got CLOCKED playing Skaven...

[MattShepherd]

...I could use some basic pointers.

I was playing a new Skaven team against a new Ogre team ... and my opponent had four ogres. He rolled bonehead twice all match. Yes, 2/64, so I don't feel that bad about the loss.

75% of the loss, I'd say, was the dice just weren't there. I was throwing nothing but pushbacks most of the time, and he was making 2 or 3 one-dice POWs every turn. But even so... I feel like I could have performed better.

Part of the problem is my gutter runners kept getting caught in the thick of things. For a variety of reasons (largely that half of my squad was KO'd or BH by the second half -- again, he was rolling very well on armour as well) the GRs just kept being the only players with the mobility to harry the ball carrier. He was playing a sort of dwarfish game, with the infalliable ogres rolling 2-3 squares ahead of a goblin cage. I'd have to use a storm vermin's blitz to open a hole, but usually I'd only have the GRs with the right movement to get in there.

Any good online Skaven guides I could brush up on?

Current lineup:

2 GR
2 SV
1 T
6 Line
3 RR
6 FF
1 Apo

I opted NOT to get the RO because I've had bad experience with big guys in the past, particularly WA.

...2/64 bonehead rolls. Again, I don't feel bad about the loss. I might as well have been playing Mega Khemri. But I'd like some good strat for the future if at all possible.

[Chairface]

I am not a skaven player, but it sounds like you just had a bad game. It happens....

[Darkson]

Any good online Skaven guides I could brush up on?

Do a search for Narkotic's Skaven guide on this site, very good.

[Xtreme]

No need to search, its in the archives easy to find.

[Spiky]

Four Ogres?

What other players did he have on pitch?

I think the roster only allows max 6 gobbos so was he playing a 10 man team?

[Skummy]

Yeah... he was playing an illegal roster if he had 4 Ogres and a brand new team...

[MattShepherd]

...howzat? I didn't check his figures.

4 ogres, 7 goblins, 2 RR, 9 FF.

480K + 280K + 140K +90K = 990,000. According to page 55 of LRB 4.0. Whassa problem?

EDIT: doy, too many goblins! Thanks for pointing that out. We'll have to replay our match or something.

Ugh.

- Matt

[DM]

A match replay? Lol. I'd be interested to see if your Comish would allow it - but in all fairness he should.

Typical of those little stunties buggers trying to slip in an extra when they think you're not looking

[Chairface]

...howzat? I didn't check his figures.

4 ogres, 7 goblins, 2 RR, 9 FF.

480K + 280K + 140K +90K = 990,000. According to page 55 of LRB 4.0. Whassa problem?

EDIT: doy, too many goblins! Thanks for pointing that out. We'll have to replay our match or something.

Ugh.

- Matt

I hope your opponent made an honest mistake

[MattShepherd]

Yeah, he's an honest guy. We both screw up from time to time. I won the league championship last year in a game against him where I blitzed and handed off, not knowing you couldn't. We both found out later, but he let it ride instead of demanding a replay.

I think we're just going to have him rework the team and carry on. Although I would like a rematch...

[DM]

I think we're just going to have him rework the team and carry on. Although I would like a rematch...

Since you lost the game I'm hardly surprised

Seems you got away with a boo boo last season, do yourself a favour and let this one slide too - and bring balance back to the force!

[MattShepherd]

It's a four-player league, so there'll be plenty of rematches, too. Heh heh heh.

[Chairface]

Four player league? Thats kind of nice actually. Lots of time to get even...

[MattShepherd]

Back again!

For reasons too complicated to get into, that season was cancelled and we started over -- him with ogres again, me with Skaven again.

And I got creamed again. Technically a tie, but I finished with four players on the pitch, one dead Line Rat and a -AV on my Thrower.

I've also played a game against High Elves, and I grokked the rats for that one. But against the ogres, and I imagine other medium-move, high-bash teams like dwarves and orcs, I can't figure out what the skaven are good for. They can't take a hit (mostly players with 2ST and/or AV7 and/or no block), and they don't have high AG except for the GRs.

I understand elf strategy: high AG, low AV, average ST = dodge and throw the ball a lot.
I understand orc strategy: average AG, higher AV, high ST = hit a lot.

But the Skaven don't have high enough AG to dodge reliably, nor the strength or armour to stand up to any amount of bashing.

I loved the game against the elves (I also had the good fortune of my opponent's very BAD fortune), and I understood how the Skaven worked against them. I can move a bit faster and use that speed to hit the ball carrier, grab the ball and move. Against bashy teams, though, that advantage seems to be nullified -- I get ploughed under, especially on defense.

Edit: to further clarify -- he has five Ogres and six Goblins. Turn 1, he blitzes with one ogre and uses the others to mark four more players. He does reasonably well with his BH rolls. Suddenly, I'm in a position where about half my squad is in an ogre TZ, so I can either do a bunch of 3+ dodges, block at negative dice, or just watch my AV7 rats get stunned, KOd or worse in the next round. Typically, his blitz will knock down a rat in the first place, so I start my first turn with a stunned rat, five marked rats, three ST2 GRs that I don't want anywhere near his ogres, and two other players.

From then on, it's just attrition. I burn my RRs on dodges to get away from the ogres, he keeps knocking them down, cracking armour, and moving to stand next to my players. I never get a chance to block the ogres because they're freaky massive, and with MV5 they're usually just a couple of GFIs from re-marking and taking out my rats if I do make a dodge.

All I have going for me is that I have three RRs to his one (but he has an aggravating tendency to acquire a second through kickoff rolls), and the ever-unreliable BH roll. Which doesn't come up often enough to keep me from losing a player on average every two or three turns.

Am I missing something here? Strike that! I KNOW I'm missing something here. And I'll get better with the rats over the next few games, but I'm scratching my head over how to handle the big strong teams.

[the.tok]

if you can speak french (but I see you are from Quebec ), here is a really helping strategy guide :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/la.cave.de.nosi ... mmaire.htm

With skavens, it is all about having good gutters, and scoring often. Your linerats will get killed fast, no matter what you do. they are here mainly to be fodder