terrible idea for IGMEOY that no one will like

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:12 pm

Originally posted by absent

I got my eye on you: If a player on your team fouls the ref will watch the whole team for future infractions until a player on the other team fouls, then that team will get the refs eye. While the ref has his eye on you the fouler gets the normal 4+ ejection roll, however all players assisting in the foul also get a 4+ ejection roll.

????????????

seems like fun, if you try to mass assist foul you get mass players booted, if you just one on one foul, no problem?

dirty player would still need to be +1/+1 in this version maybe, or +2/+2 and go prone (i like that idea because then the dirty player gets fouled much more, which is the way it should be ! )

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:55 pm

yep....don't like it

lawquoter · Post by **lawquoter** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:14 am

nah...discourages cheating.

Not that my foul rolls ever do anything but stun.

duff · Post by **duff** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:19 am

Takes away fouling as a tactic during the game, it would bev=come just a chance to kill people in the last few turns

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:13 am

what about a 4+ for the fouler, and a 6+ for the assitants?

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:22 am

i think +1/+1 dp with the eye works fine. no need to nerf fouling more.

if you don't want assists....just get rid of the rule of assists for fouling. simpler, less rolling or put a limit on the number of assists to say +2 instead of typical +5

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:25 am

eh, just a neat idea, i'm not trying to change the game, i shoulda posted this in house rules.

[Edit] Done - Darkson

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:42 am

ok say a person does foul with your rule and 3 guys get sent off and he just gets a stun..... Little silly isn't it?

what's the rational?

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:30 am

gken1 wrote:ok say a person does foul with your rule and 3 guys get sent off and he just gets a stun..... Little silly isn't it?

what's the rational?

One might argue the rational was this.

1. The fouling team wanted that chance to take a player off the pitch - or stun him (many fouls stuns are perfect result).

2. The league / ref won't stand for fouling "cheating" and sends that team a message...

3. Not all refs / situations are the same, so this time it might be 3 guys caught, next it may be one...

I still prefer the plain old +2/+2 must go prone (pro wrestling splash move or driving the helmet into him).

That would bring back the use of jump up.

-And with the risk of the retaliation being injury (instead of safe in the box) , the DP will have to think a little more about the risk / reward from the situation.

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:38 am

it just seems to me that mass assist fouling is the reason fouling (even with dirty players) seems so darn good, and i think if you line up all your good players for fouling assists they should have a chance of getting ejected too, doesn't seem fair only the turd skeleton with DP ever gets ejected, when the mummies are standing right there helping.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:15 am

How about:

If a player on your team fouls the ref will watch the whole team for future infractions until a player on the other team fouls, then that team will get the refs eye. While the ref has his eye on you the fouler gets the normal 4+ ejection roll. Team mates of the victim may react quite violently to this repeated foul play and attempt to get the Ref to send off players assisting the foul. Resulting in a row. The coach of the fouled player's team nominates players on his team to take part in the row up to the number of players that were assisting the foul. For each player taking part in the row select one of the assisting players and roll a D6. On a 6 that player is sent off. This roll can only be made once for each player that assisted in the foul. On a 1 a random player involved in starting the row is sent off and the row ends. If a row starts neither coach may argue the call since the ref is too busy to pay any attention to the coaches screaming at him from the side-lines.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:10 pm

I think an interesting variation on fouling might look something this: straight INJ roll (no mods), but the fouler is automatically sin binned and placed in Reserves. He can play in future drives. If he rolls a doubles on the INJ roll, the referee deems him guilty of serious foul play, and is sent off for the whole match. Or you could turn this into a skill like Blatant Foul or something.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:18 pm

absent1 wrote:it just seems to me that mass assist fouling is the reason fouling (even with dirty players) seems so darn good, and i think if you line up all your good players for fouling assists they should have a chance of getting ejected too, doesn't seem fair only the turd skeleton with DP ever gets ejected, when the mummies are standing right there helping.

like I said, just get rid of assist rules for fouls or change them instead of silly mass ejections.

You've identitfied the problem...fix the problem not the punishment.

carnage4u · Post by **carnage4u** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:39 pm

i honestly think the mod to the roll should depend on how brutal the foul was.

if the guy is fouled and killed, should be easier to catch, then if they foul and do nothing or stun.

for the first league every, ive fouled a bit in games. normally i foul zero to zero, but playing a team, and said i would try out fouling to see if it really helped or just made me feel dirty and an jerk, 4 games down. fouled 2 to 4 times a game. hasnt helped other then a few kills and hurt other teams, but the fouls didnt effect the game, just affected the person desire to keep playing when his team got gimped to cheap shots.

but yeah. ill keep fouling for the rest of season to be consistant, but fouling should always have the punishment level high, as its a lame tactic.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:38 pm

man where will the slippery slope end? i can't believe some of the stuff i see on here.

if you're going to be that harsh about it, why not just outlaw fouling entirely and get it over with. it'll save you a lot of time.

it's funny how much i defend fouling online. i'm not a big fouler, and generally play pass-happy elf teams. but i also think fouling is a very important part of the game, and increases player turnover, which is also a very important part of the game.

think about how much weaker fouling is RIGHT NOW compared to where it was when 3rd ed was released about 10 years ago. Here's an incomplete rundown, I'm sure, of changes that were made since then:

Dirty Player Skill : was originally +2 to both armor AND injury roll. Now it's +1 to one or the other.

SPP: Players originally got SPP for fouling cas. Now none.

Getting caught. Players could originally get caught when they rolled doubles on armor roll. Now there's an IGMEOY rule, with the ref to punish people who foul continuously without retaliation.

Injuries: The Casualty Table has greatly reduced player death, and rebalanced the BH-SI-Death ratio to a mathematically reasonable level.

Fouling Assists: Originally, all unfriendly players who were around the fouled player added +1 to the armor roll. Now they can be cut off by tz's.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am in favor of many/most of these rules. In particular, I think the Casualty Table and the IGMEOY rules are very good. I'm not advocating a return to BB 3rd Edition in any sense.

My point is that we've made all these changes to make fouling less and less viable, and people are STILL suggesting changes to weaken it further. At what point is enough enough?

I was able to play a very successful, non-fouly wood elf team in original 3rd edition rules. Won the BB tourney with them in a league with 60+coaches. (Lost 3 players in the final but that's beside the point!) These were, by and large, guys who fouled with dirty players every turn. The team I played in the Final was a Chaos team, TR 360-ish, with 4 Dirty Players, 3 or 4 Chaos Warriors with Claw and/or Piling On, and the whole bit.

Not trying to brag or anything, I'm just trying to illustrate why I don't think we need any more anti-fouling rules. I don't want to go back to where we were, but I don't want to keep sliding down the slope either!