Once-Off-Game Team Lists

[Mo]

I haven’t played BB since 2nd Ed. and am much more likely to be playing once-off games than league play. I’ve started working out 100k rosters for my old teams (and new Amazons and Vampires in the conversion & painting process now; yay Phil’s Phigs) that I hope to be reasonably competitive with each other and with the 12-player starting Human and Orc Teams suggested in the rules.

Similar to those two teams, I’m looking at trying to have 12 players for most of the teams, and compatible RRs and FF. I’m also trying to make strong use of positional players to give a good flavour.

Since I don’t have any playing experience yet with the new rules, I’d appreciate any feedback on the rosters below. Are these a reasonably competitive lineups for once off games?

A few of them have alternate options -- would one of these options be more balanced than the other in this overall mix?

Or any other suggested alternatives for this format?

Has anyone else done up once-off rosters for these or other teams? So far I’ve only come across options for leagues and tournaments. I did consult the FUMBBLE guidelines when working on this.

Thanks for any guidance you can offer!

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(The Humans and Orcs below are listed straight out of the rules, just for ease of comparison)

Amazons: 5 Line, 3 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Catch, 4 RR, 4 FF (Alt: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 5 RR, but I prefer them with a slightly different lineup than the basic Human Team).

Dwarves: 5 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Run, 2 Slay, 2 RR, 7 FF (They can get by with just 11 players. Alt: 3 RR, 3 FF, though I don’t think they need the RR so much).

Elves: 8 Line, 2 Blitz, 1 Throw, 1 Catch, 2 RR, 3FF (Alt: 7 Line, 3 RR, 4FF, but I’m hesitant to cut them back to 11 players).

Goblins: 10 Line, 2 Trolls, 1 Apo, 5 RR, 5 FF (Alt: 2 Minotaurs instead of Trolls, 3FF -- this is the way my old team is painted up).

Halflings: 10 Line, 2 Trees, 1 Apo, 6 RR, 7 FF.

Humans: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Catch, 4 RR, 4 FF.

Khemri: 6 Line, 1 Blitz, 2 Throw, 3 Mums, 3 RR, 5 FF.

Orcs: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Block, 3 RR, 6FF.

Skaven: 6 Line, 1 Throw, 2 Storm, 3 Gutter, 3 RR, 3 FF.

Vampires: 9 Thralls, 3 Vamps, 4 RR, 3 FF (Alt: 1 Apo, 3 RR, 5 FF).

And now the tricky one -- 1/2 Skaven/1/2 Dark Elf
Under 2e rules this was easy, just take half the player types from each team; plus they disliked each other, so after declaring a pass from one to the other there was only a 50% chance they would actually toss the ball. I’m partial to the team and would like to translate it into a workable format for the new rules. My initial thought for balance is that either race can never have more than 1 extra player on the roster than the other, not more than 1 extra positional player, and not more than 1 extra lineman. RR are priced at the higher Skaven rate of 60. Is the old Dislike rule still needed to balance this team?
1/2 Skaven: 3 Line, 1 Throw, 1 Storm, 1 Gutter;
1/2 Dark Elf: 4 Line, 1 Blitz, 1 Throw;
2 RR, 2 FF (Alt: 3 Elf Line, 3 RR, 3 FF, but I’m hesitant to reduce the roster to 11 players)

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[DoubleSkulls]

Have a look here - viewtopic.php?t=9038

[Mo]

Yes, I had looked at that thread, but it seemed like the primary gist of it was starting teams for ongoing play. Team design is different between planning for optimal ongoing development (whether short or long term) and planning for once-off games.

For instance, most (if not all) teams in that list have only 11 players. Rosters with 9-10 liners abound. Good development strategy, but bland as a standard for once-off play. FF is all in the 7-9 range.

Some of those rosters might also work for the once-off style that I'm working on developing, but it would take a lot of sorting through to identify them.

The design philosophy to match the starter Orc and Human teams from the box set is different enough from designing for development that it seemed worth starting a new thread so the different discussions don't get hopelessly tangled.

Maybe at some point combining the team lists would make sense, as long as each team is given a flag (or more than one if appropriate), something like:
OOG for Once Off Game
STD for Short Term Development
LTD for Long Term Development

[Darkson]

This one is probably what you're after.
viewtopic.php?t=15941

[Mo]

Well, the 100 and 110 tournament lists are closer to what I'm looking for than the league lists. Certainly they are not built around needing high FF. But many of the 100s and some of the 110s are still based on 11 players, and likewise they aren't necessarily based on featuring all the positional players.

So perhaps then there are 4 roster categories, with some rosters that could overlap more than one category:
* Once Off Introductory Game
* Tournament
* Short Term Development League
* Long Term Development League

I know tournament and league play is really fun. But eek, am I the only player who is not likely to have time, and opponents with time, for these formats as my primary way of playing the game?

I'm most likely to play the game once in awhile with friends who enjoy games in general, but are not BB fanatics who will dive right into a commitment to league play.

Or if I go to a small con, I don't expect to find BB fanatics there. But I can bring along all my teams and run some game slots for open play. That would be much more likely to pick up new players who would want to try out the game for 1 game period, but probably wouldn't commit a big chunk of their con time playing a tournament.

So therefore, I'm looking to make up rosters that are very much like the starting ones in the box -- reasonably balanced against each other *and* featuring all of the positional players -- so that you get the full flavour of each team.

Adding such teams to the current sticky threads for league and tournament rosters wouldn't necessarily be in keeping with the needs of those threads.

[the.tok]

Amazons: 5 Line, 3 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Catch, 4 RR, 4 FF (Alt: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 5 RR, but I prefer them with a slightly different lineup than the basic Human Team).

I would rather go : 5 line, 4 Blitz, 1 Throw, 2 Catch, 4RR 2FF
I think new players will get a chance to see how blodge can be good

Dwarves: 5 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Run, 2 Slay, 2 RR, 7 FF (They can get by with just 11 players. Alt: 3 RR, 3 FF, though I don’t think they need the RR so much)

I think new players tend to use RR faster, which is why the starting teams from the rulebook have so muchRR. That is why, even for dwarfs, I would go 3RR

Elves: 8 Line, 2 Blitz, 1 Throw, 1 Catch, 2 RR, 3FF (Alt: 7 Line, 3 RR, 4FF, but I’m hesitant to cut them back to 11 players)

New players will have a hard time playing with 11 Ar 7 players, so let them with 8 linos.

Goblins: 10 Line, 2 Trolls, 1 Apo, 5 RR, 5 FF (Alt: 2 Minotaurs instead of Trolls, 3FF -- this is the way my old team is painted up).

well, I don't your ruleset, but I don't think you can get Minos with goblins.
Why don't you put a few special weapons in it? like a chainsaw
I would go: 10 Line, 2 Trolls, 1nobbla, 1 apo, 4RR, 3FF

Halflings: 10 Line, 2 Trees, 1 Apo, 6 RR, 7 FF

Stunties need more than 12 players... I would go 12 lines, 2 trees, 1 apo 5 RR, 7FF (additionnal ingredients if you plan to use them)

Humans: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Catch, 4 RR, 4 FF

I hate it... I prefer 5 line, 3 Blitz, 2 throw, 2 Catch, 3RR 5FF, 3blitzers seems a minimum for humans to me. I feel it like the team spirit

Khemri: 6 Line, 1 Blitz, 2 Throw, 3 Mums, 3 RR, 5 FF

Arf, khemri are tough to make a team with... but if they have 3 mummies, I don't feel like playing khemris people that will take khemris will be there to hit people, so I would go 6 line, 1Blitz, 2 Throw, 4Mums, 2 RR, 1FF.
If you have a problem with them being 13, drop a lino for FF

Orcs: 6 Line, 2 Blitz, 2 Throw, 2 Block, 3 RR, 6FF

Hate this one too I would go 5 line, 2throw, and either 3 blitzers or 3 Block (probably 3 blitzers) 3 RR, 3FF

Skaven: 6 Line, 1 Throw, 2 Storm, 3 Gutter, 3 RR, 3 FF

I love this one, don't change anything

Vampires: 9 Thralls, 3 Vamps, 4 RR, 3 FF (Alt: 1 Apo, 3 RR, 5 FF).

The 4RR version seems good to me.

And now the tricky one -- 1/2 Skaven/1/2 Dark Elf

I dislike this mix team idea... why don't you just go DE? I would go
8 line, 1 witch, 1 blizer, 1 thrower, 2RR, 4FF. yeah I know, that is 11 players, but DE are so expensive...

That was just my opinion, cause in one off games, I like to give a taste of the roster's spirit, so I hope my point of view can help you!

[Mo]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll mull these suggestions over. It all sounds plausible at first glance, and I do want to convey the spirit of each team. I'm also beginning to ponder if 110 teams would be better for allowing more of the flavour of each one.

Goblins: 10 Line, 2 Trolls, 1 Apo, 5 RR, 5 FF (Alt: 2 Minotaurs instead of Trolls, 3FF -- this is the way my old team is painted up).

well, I don't your ruleset, but I don't think you can get Minos with goblins.
Why don't you put a few special weapons in it? like a chainsaw
I would go: 10 Line, 2 Trolls, 1nobbla, 1 apo, 4RR, 3FF

Officially yes, Gobbos only get Trolls these days. But my team from 2e days has 2 Minos painted up in team colours, not Trolls. Special weapons are a possibility, I'm working on suitable figs now to add to the team. I'm very happy to see them as part of the regular roster in the Vault lists.

And now the tricky one -- 1/2 Skaven/1/2 Dark Elf

I dislike this mix team idea... why don't you just go DE? I would go
8 line, 1 witch, 1 blizer, 1 thrower, 2RR, 4FF. yeah I know, that is 11 players, but DE are so expensive...

I don't just go DE, cause I only have 8 DE figs for this team (and 8 Skaven) This was a great team under 2e which I'm quite fond of. And the figs are custom conversions -- so to fill it out with matching figs, I'd have to find a batch of 1st generation plastic WFB Dark Elves.

But I will likely wind up with another all DE option. My Vamp team is in progress. I'm working now on converting a bunch of Vampire Wars figures for the Vampires, Cheerleaders, and Staff. Later on, when I'm a bit caught up on my current modelling and painting, I'm planning on ordering a dozen of Phil's Black Widows to use for the Thralls. Those figs could also be used to field a starter DE team in place of the Vamps. I'll be careful to order the Black Widows so the poses work well for the DE positions.

[the.tok]

I think you may be right about bringing the tr to 110.
Especially about elves, because, at tr 100, you only have have a few positionnals, and that is a shame. about the mino with goblins, even if you want to put them in, I think it make TTM more difficult, and that would give away some good plays, don't you think?