VAULT Ogre Team +1ST?

[Underdog]

Ive reposted this because quite a few people sounded up for sure hands and it was missing off the last poll becuase I forgot to click submit. Also a few people said they miss read the title and that could have affected the way they voted so - if you voted on the last one please vote here too but theres no need to repost your comments unless you've changed your mind.

Remember the Vualt Ogre team is 0-6 Ogres, 0-16 Snotlings.

Thanks

Original Message:
Just played my second game with my Ogre Team (Vault rules in a Vault league) and rolled a double 6 for an Ogre. Its his first skill.

Im tending towards Block since I just played dwarfs and he must have knocked at least one ogre down per turn on 2D my choice blocks but Im also very keen on Pro and the +1 ST is always so hard to turn down...

[Joemanji]

Take the ST. You'll get other doubles, and Snotlings can always carry the ball then. ST 6 works in the opponent's turn, and that is especially important for Ogres. Ogres are all about standing next to people and making them take a 2D against block or dodge away ... ST 6 makes that tactic even more effective.

[Gorbad]

Have to agree, double sixes won't come around again anytime soon, and doubles will.

Plus with ST6, you could even start to think about Multiple Block.

[Tante Kaethe]

Hmmm, that's a tricky one...

For a LRB-team I would have suggested ST+1 for sure. But for the Vault-team (which I personally despise - but that's another story ) I think I would take Sure Hands because under Vault-rules you have to try even harder to use the Ogres as ballcarriers:

1) Snotlings have ST1 - if you use them as ballcarriers your opponent can easily blitz/block them with 3-dice
2) effective cages are much harder to build as you have less Ogres and Snotlings have "titchy"
3) Ogres have loner so you can't rely on team-rerolls for picking up the ball with an Ogre
4) Sure Hands protects you against Strip Ball
5) Add Break Tackle as the next skill and you have quite decent Ogre-runner
6) it's not that hard to set up 3-dice blocks with ST5 (you will soon have lots of Guard and Snotlings get everywhere

Cheers,

Tante Käthe

[Xtreme]

Never send a snotling to do an ogres job. Give him surehands.

I got my vote right this time.

[Underdog]

Wow. No votes for Block. Thats a suprize.

[DoubleSkulls]

On anything but an Ogre team I don't really see any other option adding more value. Ogres are really big punch bags to take damage away from the rest of your team and annoy the crap of out opponent. S6 makes them so much better at tying people up (since an extra player has to be used to get an assist).

On a PBBL Ogre team I think its more debatable. You've got lots of strength, so having one S6 doesn't make as much of a difference. Having one with Block or Sure Hands would probably help more. Also the difference in contribution to TV makes a difference to the decision too. That 20k jump doesn't sound like a lot, but every little bit helps.

So I'd probably take Sure Hands (immunity to Strip Ball and a much better chance of getting the ball).

[Virral]

I voted Pro, because if he bone-heads then he won't get to use sure hands anyway. With Pro, you have a chance to re-roll bonehead, and if bonehead succeeds then you have a chance to reroll the pickup. Or the block. Or the GFI, or whatever else you might need to reroll.

[Cloggy]

Voted ST+, but for a different reason. I'm no vault expert, but I think I read that the TTM trait is now ST dependant, in the sense that the maximum distance you can throw a teammate = equal to yer strenght. This gives a ST6 Ogre an additional advantage from the ST alone, especially when throwing snots who are not the greatest movers in the world.

[stormmaster1]

Sure hands is definately the best skill for ogres on a double, but not over +1ST. In your next match, a surehands ogre may well be more useful, but longterm you'll get other ogres with sure hands, so keep this one with ST6

[Underdog]

I think Im going to go for Sure Hands.

Picking up the ball really was a huge problem in my last game (as well as being knocked over all the time with 1/2D blocks). ST6 wouldnt have helped either of these situations infact I dont think ST6 is that important on an Ogre team. The TTM boost would be nice but I cant see myself regretting turning it down even if I quickly roll another (standard) double because then I will have a player with Sure Hands and another with Block which I still think would be better than one with ST6 and another with sure hands. Even on another double on this same player I I'd have Surehands and Block (or possibly pro? hmm...). These general skills are sooo important... the Ogres cant do ANYTHING relyably otherwise.

Anyway thanks for your advice everyone.