Diving Tackle

[GalakStarscraper]

I'm going to double check my understanding. It all has to do with how a Dodge is described.

Galak

[Jimmy Nids]

Should have been more specific. I see the wording i used was flawed. I meant this:

Opponent Declares Dodge and selects square.

Opponent Rolls the Dodge attempt.

If he fail, he rerolls, else if DT would make it a failure, use DT

If they roll a number(usually 5/6) that DT won't help with, then attempt to shadow.

Tackle is declared before the player uses reroll & before DT is used, so that he can't dodge and DT will still work(Always declare tackle even if you Don't DT so that if you shadow him he loses his dodge skill for as many rolls as is possible.

[DoubleSkulls]

My understanding is the same as Galaks i.e. DT is triggered first. Shadowing is only rolled after the movement has been resolved (so you know if they've fallen over before attempting to shadow).

[Gorbad]

I also think the same way, but to make it more probable: add in Stand Firm.

If the dodge fails, a SF player doesn't move, therefore no Shadowing, so logically it has to be: Announce Dodge -> Roll -> Announce DT -> Success? -> Shadowing.

[Craigtw]

My interpretation is that the Diving tackle says that it is triggered when the dodge is attempted. So before you even move you have to attempt to dodge.

The shadowing is only resolved when the player is moved out of the player's TZ for whatever reason. The player can only consider to have moved out of the tackle zone if there was a successful dodge first.

So DT would come before the Shadowing.[/u]

[GalakStarscraper]

okay thanks Ian ... Gorbad gave me the reasoning that I knew I had determined before.

The correct order for this is:

1) Declare attempt to Dodge
2) Roll for the Dodge
3) Use Diving Tackle or not ... and use Stand Firm or not.
4) If Stand Firm not used ... move the player ... if he failed knock down roll AV/INJ
5) Player has left your TZ ... Shadowing triggers

Galak

[wesleytj]

i can't resist taking this opportunity to remind everyone that one of the main reasons people used to justify throwing out the old diving tackle was that the new version would be a lot simpler.

[Fronko]

Nice try, wes, but I am sure it will not get your preferred skill back anyway!

[wesleytj]

it wasn't my "preferred" skill, but i did usually have 1 or 2 elves with it.

i did certainly like it more than the new one, which i don't even take.

[Gorbad]

it wasn't my "preferred" skill, but i did usually have 1 or 2 elves with it.

i did certainly like it more than the new one, which i don't even take.

It was my orcs' preferred double, and having had a team with 4 blitzers and 4 black orcs with 3rd DT, I'm in full agreement that it was horribly broken.

The new one is much more balanced with the other AG skills, and I always make sure to sprinkle in a few DT with the rest.

What is it you don't like about it?

[wesleytj]

well in the case of my elves, most of the time my opponent isn't trying to dodge away from me anyway. it just wouldn't get used that often.

the old one wasn't broken imo. sure if you had black orcs and such rolling doubles to take it, that's pretty nasty, but so are a lot of other combos derived from doubles.

[Fronko]

wesley hits the main peg leg of the skill:

If you can usually take it, you are probably elf - which means, the nasty team wouldnt want to dodge away from you anyway. Against other flair, it is more useful, of course.

[GalakStarscraper]

the old one wasn't broken imo. sure if you had black orcs and such rolling doubles to take it, that's pretty nasty, but so are a lot of other combos derived from doubles.

My 3rd edition team had an ST 5 Diving Tackle player. He was unstoppable almost entirely because of Diving Tackle. There are good combos with doubles ... but old DT had the ability to be overwhelmingly good.

That player averaged 3 TDs per a game by himself. And in fact scored once with just him and 3 Human linemen able to take the pitch.

Galak

[juck101]

My 3rd edition team had an ST 5 Diving Tackle player. He was unstoppable almost entirely because of Diving Tackle.

I didnt have much strength with it but had 5DT elfs on my high elf sqaud. Was just silly to bat a blitzer away with the ball carrier! old DT was broken but then so were other skills. DP and pro was far more concern :O

[G´Shade]

I´m little confused about if you can use anything after a DT.
It says that the player ends up prone on the square that is vacant by the player that leaves the TZ.